Islam - What the West Needs to Know (Examination of Islam)(2006)

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - An examination of Islam, Violence, and the Fate of the Non-Muslim World. Featuring: Abdullah Al-Araby Walid Shoebot Robert Spencer Serge Trifkovic Bat Ye'or See Roberts Spencers website Here: Also includes information about his important books. about DVD http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/ Where to buy it http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y0274043Y4516368/qid%253D1157697660/102-5966639-9029714 Content The documentary consists of original interviews, citations from Islamic texts, Islamic artwork, computer-animated maps, footage of Western leaders, and Islamic television broadcasts. Its tone is sober, methodical, and compelling. Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination. Relying primarily on Islam?s own sources, this documentary demonstrates that Islam is a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government. Outline of the Documentary Introduction We hear from prominent Western leaders that Islam is peaceful and that those who commit violence in its name are heterodox fanatics. Part 1: ?There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet? Our interviewees affirm their belief that Islamic violence is entirely orthodox behavior for Muslims and stems directly from the teachings and example of the Prophet Muhammad and the commands of the Koran. We learn that the example of Muhammad is one of a violent warlord who killed numerous people. The Koran ? the verbatim words of Allah ? prescribes violence against non-Muslims and Muhammad is the perfect example of the Koran in action. Part 2: The Struggle We learn that jihad, while literally meaning 'struggle', in fact denotes war fought against non-Muslims in order to bring the rule of Islamic law to the world. Violent death in jihad is, according to the Koran, the only assurance of salvation. One of our interviewees tells of his personal involvement in terrorism and his leaving Islam. Part 3: Expansion Following the death of Muhammad, his 'rightly-guided' successors carried his wars to three continents, fighting, enslaving, and massacring countless Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and others. Islam did not spread through evangelism or through its natural appeal, but through aggressive wars of conquest. The Crusades were largely a belated response on the part of Christian Europe to rescue Christians in the Holy Land suffering under Muslim oppression. The Muslim world today, while no longer the unified empire of the Caliphs, is exceptional for being responsible for the vast majority of conflicts around the world and for almost all of international terrorism. Part 4: ?War is Deceit? A great problem with Western efforts to understand Islam is due to the Islamic principle of 'religious deception', which enjoins Muslims to deceive non-Muslims in order to advance the cause of Islam. Muslim groups today in the West employ deception and omission to give the impression that 'Islam is a religion of peace', an utter fiction. Part 5: More than a Religion The most important characteristic of Islam not understood by the West is that it is more a system of government than a personal religion. Throughout its history, Islam has never recognized a distinction between the religious and the secular/political. Islamic law governs every aspect of religious, political, and personal action, which amounts to a form of totalitarianism that is divinely enjoined to dominate the world, analogous in many ways to Communism. Part 6: The House of War Islamic theology divides the world into two spheres locked in perpetual combat, dar al-Islam (House of Islam - where Islamic law predominates), and dar al-harb (House of War - the rest of the world). It is incumbent on dar al-Islam to fight and conquer dar al-harb and permanently assimilate it. Muslims in Western nations are called to subvert the secular regimes in which they now live in accordance with Allah's command. Due to political correctness and general government and media irresponsibility, the danger posed by observant Muslims in the West remains largely unappreciated. Tech specs: General #0 Format : AVI Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave Format/Family : RIFF File size : 472 MiB PlayTime : 1h 38mn Bit rate : 661 Kbps Writing library : VirtualDub build 24463/release Video #0 Codec : DivX 5 Codec/Family : MPEG-4 Codec settings/BVOP : Yes Codec settings/QPel : No Codec settings/GMC : 0 Codec settings/Matrix : Default PlayTime : 1h 38mn Bit rate : 200 Kbps Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Aspect ratio : 16/9 Frame rate : 29.970 fps Standard : NTSC Resolution : 8 bits Chroma : 4:2:0 Interlacement : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.019 Writing library : DivX503b1988p Audio #0 Codec : MPEG-1 Audio layer 1 Codec profile : Joint stereo PlayTime : 1h 38mn Bit rate : 448 Kbps Bit rate mode : CBR Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 44 KHz Resolution : 16 bits Video0 delay : 3ms =============================================================================== Learn the true nature of the world, come visit our huge dedicated e-library and forums @ http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/index.html http://conspiracycentral.info/index.php ===============================================================================

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GaNjaMaaN (2007-05-12)

Islam Suck Dicks!!

hamz.i.am (2007-05-12)

Im really Intrested on this, yet im only 15 years old and have really bad typing skills so i cant express in words well. I agree that islam is really bad to the whole world.
Long live CHEESE
Down with ISLAM

Li_RM35 (2007-05-12)

I laugh my ass off every time I read the comments from some dim bulb who thinks we our lives to Islam because of their inventions.
Islam may have made a few contributions to history, but guess what - they want our asses fucking DEAD now.
Speaking of reading books, try Yoseff Bodansky's "The High Cost of Peace" - read the chapter called "A vow is a vow and a contract is a contract" - the Muslim's allegiance is to ISLAM before anything else. Islam wants a worldwide caliphate and let's the terrorists do their dirty work - all the while saying "gee, we aren't terrorists - but maybe they went over that hill over there".
It's time to bring this war to the Muslim street. Wanna destroy Islamic terrorism? Easy - start nuking Islam's largest cities 25 at a time every time they launch a terrorist attack.
NO MERCY - NO COMPROMISE - NO NEGOTIATION.
It's time to show these terrorists what *real* terror is all about.
And since they seem to have a penchant for burning people alive, I say let's bring new meaning to the phrase "How about a little fire, scarecrow" - with nuclear fucking weapons.
Fuck Islam and fuck it DEAD.

assem88 (2007-05-12)

just cums to show what people are really like, ignorant and a bunch of cowards. Writing that piece of rascist retarded comments on the internet... go out to the public and tell em how much u hate islam. What u dont realise is Islam it self is the one and only flawless religion. Only problem is how many "muslims" today tend to do evil things in its name, such as certain acts of terrorism. Dont associate islam with muslims, its two completely different things, u seem to have problems with Islam, but u ignorant little prick should do some proper research on its teachings and not take things out of context. Islam is all for peace and caring, and those who abuse the religion and do evil acts in its name will be judged eventually. Thanks
God is greater

pether (2007-05-12)

Haha. People actualy believes this crap?

assem88 (2007-05-13)

on the day of judgement all the nonbelievers will come to us muslims and ask us why we didnt tell them about islam. Nows our chance, start seeding! :D :D However, only God can lead them on the right path and once he has led them astray nothing and no one can turn them to the path. I just thank God I was born muslim :D :d :D
God is greater

g_ij_s (2007-05-13)

@sidoua
Most common mis conception of the islam is that brought us algebra.
The islam brought us nothing, infact it killed the technology from the arabs. All the knowledge comes from conquered tribes.
I will seed this video until no one downloads it...

 Knaster (2007-05-14)

Nationalsocialism is the only true way.....hoist the battlestandards and keep on marching i tne white world

Li_RM35 (2007-05-15)

To assem88:
You're like every other lying sack of shit Muslim - "oh we are just peaceful Muslims" - while you send out your bitch dogs of allah to kill women and children (Beslan).
Fucking coward cunt bitches that blow up kids. Look at Osama - that faggot cornholer has to hide in a cave like the girly girl bitch prophet muhammad he emulates so well.
You say "Only problem is how many "muslims" today tend to do evil things in its name, such as certain acts of terrorism. "
Yeah, that's the only problem. All those fucking muslims doing acts of terrorism. Gee, maybe they belong to "The Religion of Bozo The Fucking Clown" and are just trying to make Islam look bad.
That must be it, huh dickhead. Take your self righteous attitude about your "flawless" religion and shove it up your ass.
And it's pretty obvious (dumb fuck) you didn't watch this video. It doesn't support your position and it shows Islam for exactly what it is - a religion and a people who are intent on dominating the world and destroying everyone who thinks differently then you.

Xonon (2007-05-16)

Fuck you, Asstards!
George Bush blew up those towers!!! Don't blame it on Islam!!
Proof:

Li_RM35 (2007-05-16)

Xonon:
Another piece of shit Muslim fuck spreading their lies.
Or - proof that some village somewhere is missing their idiot.

netwookie (2007-05-19)

joojoojammy - good job man lol
i love watching the differant propaganda that each side launches, its hilarious lol damn christians/oil junkies and jihad motherfuckers. they are gonna be the end of anyone near any kind of civilization. good thing we got the most nukes ;D

mehearty (2007-05-27)

" a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government. "
sounds like Christianity to me.

svyl (2007-06-13)

islam contributed nothing to society. the arabs did yes. before islam came and ruined their advanced society. islam is a mental illness that should be cured in gas chambers.

wasp74 (2007-07-15)

alaaaaaaah 2akbaaaaaaar & you will see

stylishirish (2007-07-22)

to all those filled with righteous condemanation -y'all are ignorant! fucking ignorant! your words are nothing more than a trite compilation of what you have been told. there is not an original thought among you. every religion has an inherent defect - it is god in the hands and mouths of men... why dont you try it the other way around, lose the religiousity and show one another some patience, love, and tolerance.... instead of twisting and perverting the words of some of the most holy men in all of history -- listen to what THEY (jesus,mohammed) have actually said and try not to be so ignorant as to form all your thoughts from the propagated molds of highly opinionated hearsay. - peace -

Griezel (2007-08-05)

IslaM = CONQUEST
The last thing we need are crazy allah worshipping idiots.

kenmikrov1 (2007-09-14)

A beliefsystem in this or that is stupid. Put all priests, mullahs etc in jail or mental hospital. Those idiots have done enough harm to humanity.

NotMyUsualid (2007-10-19)

This is an amazing piece of documentary work, that I recommend you all watch.
I have been seeding this forever - it is the best, and most honest account of what I have come to know about Islam.
I can't belive my comments were removed, given I have insulted or sweared at all....but I guess the that is muslims for you.
Anyway, this has all the facts from history, accurately, and neatly presented for you to take in. But beware, it does not make for entertaining tv...this is real.
Mohammad WAS a pedophile. Check the facts!

vision2006 (2007-11-20)

Believing is easier than thinking, thats why the muslims are true believers. Do not ever trust them !!!!

death01048 (2007-12-06)

..... thanks dude this is awsome

LoUsIf (2008-01-02)

This DVD is bullshit. Don't waste your time. Don't believe the Zionists. Islam means PEACE. Christianity and Judaism are the most violent, slanderous religions out there.

Slakpad (2008-01-16)

Never in my life have i read more CRAP then in the comments of this torrent. Both the pathetic religious fanatics AND the intolerant nazi fascists dont know shit they're talking about.

hielo999 (2008-01-25)

Another raghead bits the dust....
Another one gone, another one gone, another one bites the dust.

quakebaker (2008-01-28)

If you dont know anything about islam, dont watch this movie, I was disgusted by its inaccuracy, entirely one sided and biased, purely misleading and false, they try to make it sound as though the ideology of less than 5% of the muslim population is held by the whole, do some research from an academic standing prior to watching this christian/judaist propaganda, if you donr belive me check the production and aho all the speakers are

quakebaker (2008-01-28)

oh, and for all those idiot reponders saying that all the contributions that islamic societies made were actually developed in arab villlages conquered by the ottoman muslims, you are very misinformed...the turks were atheists conquering muslim towns and later converted to islam and carried out the conquests...again do some research you dumb deaf and blind morons.

quakebaker (2008-01-28)

Most common mis conception of the islam is that brought us algebra.
The islam brought us nothing, infact it killed the technology from the arabs. All the knowledge comes from conquered tribes.
OMG......LOL...IDIOT

thamonindew (2008-02-02)

I'm a documentary filmmaker who's Jewish. I know some of you simpletons out there are expecting me to back this film because "Jews hate Muslims and they're bitter enemies" Of course, you simpletons have probably never met neither a Jew or Muslim in your life, hence why you think this film is anything but a complete hack-job.
This is a doc for people who have already made up their minds that "Islam is evil" and "Muslims are our enemy" without actually studying Islam in an objective fashion (reading evilislam.com doesn't count as objective, sorry)
It is the Islamic version of those anti-semitic films most of us Chosen Folks are familiar with that are produced by Neo-Nazi groups. It takes quotes from the Qu'ran completely out of context (ie - it quotes the Qu'ran as saying "Jews (in general) are apes" when in fact this passage is from the Islamic version of the book of Exodus, and that passage is talking about the Jews who practiced idolotry while Moses grabbed the ten commandments from the top of mount Sinai, if you wanted to, you could do the same hack job in the bible - you could say that since the bible tells the same story and refers to those specific people as "heathens" than the bible is saying that all Jews are heathens . . .
Expect this level of terrible scholarship or outright distortion from this film. Either the makers are completely ignorant of Islam (in which case, as a filmmaker, what the hell are you doing making a film about subject you don't know anything about?) or they're DELIBERATELY misleading their audience (again, what kind of a doc-filmmaker does that?)
The speakers are horrible as well:
Walid Shoebot - Was a Jew-hating Palestinian terrorist, before he switched sides and became a Christian and re-directed the same hate towards Muslims. In fact, much of what he says about Muslims now is similar to what he said about Jews in the past. Considering he hasn't been deported or charged unlike other Palestinian terrorists found living in the US, his new views seem to be keeping him in Uncle Sam's good books, which makes you wonder how sincere he's being, or if it's an act to stay out of jail.
Robert Spencer - Takes the worst examples of Islam, leaves out anything positive (and yes, sorry, there is much positive), takes quotes out of context - pretty much writes about Islam the way the Klan writes about Jews. But since it's publicly acceptable to be racist towards Muslims, unlike us Jews, he is able to make a joke of a career out of his amateur scholarship.
Bat Ye'Or - A good scholar of Jewish history in Muslim lands, however she doesn't keep things in context in making judgements such as "Jews were treated like crap in Medieval Islamic countries" - As bad as it was for Jews in say, Morocco in 1600, it was a hell of a lot better than being a Jew living in Christian Europe at the same time. After all, my family had to flee Spain to what is now Poland once the Moors were driven out by the Catholics, because of the Inquisition, which killed Jews who wouldn't forcibly convert to Christianity. So if Muslims are evil towards Jews because of this history, why not Christians? The answer is we should realize that the world IN GENERAL was anti-semetic for us and still is in many places, and up until after WWII for the most part, the best place to live for a Jew was a place like Seville in Moorish Spain, or Istanbul under the Ottomans.
These are the kinds of speakers in this film. A film that if it treated Judaism the way it treats Islam, would certainly be called an false, anti-semitic piece of propaganda.
If you really want to learn about Islam, go pick up no god but God by Reza Aslan (you've seen him on the Daily Show & Colbert Report, he is the Middle East expert for ABC News) great book written by a young guy who actually has degrees in and has taught religion. And an excellent writer as well.

DaddyHorseSense (2008-02-11)

Simple truth. Islam IS evil, it is Satanism dressed up as a religion. Not all, or even most, Muslims are evil, but their 'faith' has perverted them to the extent that they happily support evil actions.
Well worth watching, no wonder the brigade are so upset. I'll be leaving this one as a permenant seed.

palipol (2008-02-24)

Dear All...I've been reading your comments and have to say I'm disappointed.It is not about protecting Islam...it is about admit the fact...there are good and bad people on every side you look.It is not about religion..We are humans..and have our good side and bad side.Being open mind does not mean you accept something..but to try to understand something..I was an ignorant too..before I went to Turkey..and I don't know how could I think so many bad things about Islam..the very East side of the world.I'm in love with a turkish woman...ans she is not radical..not terrorist..she is one of the sweetest woman I have ever meet...What you see on tv is only a little part of reality...I'm romanian and every time I turn on the news there are news about romanians who commit murder rape etc....Bin Laden killed many many people 9/11..Bush with his war killed 10 more...american young soldiers among the "murdered"....do we really need this hate??I don't think so...instead of judging something...let's be open mind..don't ask you to tolerate everything in this world..just try to find out the facts...Call me stupid/idiot..but if you do this...you shall remain ignorant all your life and for who will you do wrong??not for me certainly...

melwakil (2008-02-27)

There is no ONE single Muslim majority country that prevents women from going to school.
The ONLY country that prevents women from driving or leaving the house without a male guardian is KSA. A single country with a tiny fraction of the Muslim population can not be considered as a representative of Islam.
Hitler was Christian and was the sun of a Christian priest. Does it make sense, saying that Christianity encourages genocides?
Many Catholic priests were proven guilty of child molestation. Can we say that this is a Catholic Christian tradition?
The Christian crusaders, fighting in the name of the cross, committed cannibalism. Does that mean that Christianity calls for cannibalism?
Almost naked women are in display in the red district of Amsterdam, Netherlands. Many of the sex workers there are white slaves. Does Christianity approve that?
According to the UN statistics, domestic violence in the west far exceeds domestic violence in the Middle East countries. Is domestic violence a Christian doctrine?
Islam called for liberating slaves. African Americans were enslaved by a papal bull from Pope Nicholas V.
Muslim countries harbored the Jew, while there were laws in nearly every single European country dehumanizing them. For example, while Christian Hitler was slaughtering Jews in Germany, Egypt, a Muslim country, had a Jewish member of its cabinet.
If the bad actions of some members of that society is considered to be reflecting the merits of that society, then Christianity would be the most evil social/religious system human kind had ever knew

rockstar11998 (2008-03-05)

I don't want to put down all of the deceived Muslims but this video really shows what Islam is about. It is the most eye opening torrent I've seen. There is a God. Satan is the reason for Islam as he promised he would bring war and misery to as many people on earth as he could. Islam will be at the forefront of Armageddon. Mark my words.

rockstar11998 (2008-03-11)

This message is for all you so called atheists and pommesfritten. What's the Greatest lie that's out there. That Satan doesn't exist. Why is this the greatest? So that we can blame everyone else for the problems in the world and keep on fighting one another or not put our faith in God. There is no good unless there is evil. Sorry if your not enlightened yet but the truth will come out soon enough. Actually much of it already has but since you can't see the signs of the times you still say things are all messed up together and religion is not for you. The opposition to evil is never the easy road get over it!!

streetcan (2008-03-20)

There is very little on this planet that is more pathetic than when people of different religions argue over who's religion is the right and most just.
Christianity adopted to western values with the separation of church and state,Islam should too.Only the fanatics play on the religion vs religion argue,it's simply put civilization vs civilization.
The far east with Japan in the lead adapted to western values as well...
Modern society vs a dated one,democracy vs dictatorship,science and reason vs religious dogma.

rockstar11998 (2008-03-27)

bodthedog - I just laugh at you and your stupidity. I am not the least bit brain washed or indoctinated. I have a firm testimony of God. Just because you don't wanna takes sides in the war between good and evil don't make you smart. You'll still be judged according to your deeds and the intentions of your heart and of course according to what truths you know. Which seems to be very limited at this time.

Claus- (2008-03-30)

Zakimar, this film doesn't diminish those facts.
It's just Brutal and Big Business.
Being a Slave of the real owners (The Rich) of the western world is comparable to the opression under medieval sharia. West is being slowly stripped from its freedom with or without the islamic laws.

rockstar11998 (2008-03-31)

bodthedog - I was defending a general statement you made because you are trying to put down all religions. I don't have to study all 27,000 religions to know if they are all wrong. I never said everyone that doesn't think my way is evil. They are definitely in the dark about who God is and how to worship Him tho. You ask for proof. God has proven Himself all through History - The Jewish and Christian God that is. The prophecies in the Bible have come true, are being fulfilled today, and will continue to be fulfilled in the near future. Telling you I know something is true won't make it true for you. Like the scriptures say you may know a tree (religion or faith) by its fruits. If its a good tree it brings forth good fruit. Also how do you describe salt to someone who has never tasted it? They just won't understand. You can wait around as long as you like but that will only put you on the wrong side. If you earnestly want to do the right thing it's gonna take some effort. God doesn't like fence sitters (people who just watch without picking sides). The wicked take the truth to be hard - maybe you like sinning so picking a religion will force you to give up some of your bad habits and sins. At any rate it doesn't matter how you feel about my beliefs if I'm not forcing you to belief it too (unlike the Muslims) . I just would like you to be prepared for the day of Judgment and not be wondering where you stand in the eyes of God. I clearly know where I stand and wish the same for you. Read the scriptures study more scriptures than the Bible. There is a prophet today. Do some research and stop putting down religion and making excuses for yourself.

Salvia420 (2008-04-03)

jzenmen, it is better to become the follower of truth, then it is to become an atheist. Ghandi said something along the lines of "I'm a Hindu, I am a Christian, I am a Muslim, I am a Jew", if you are all of them, then you can be equally offended by all their ignorance yet see the good of religion. If you are just an atheist, you will just condemn it all period. You can't beat them...

rockstar11998 (2008-04-04)

bodthedog - You don't read my posts very carefully do you. Saying a religion is wrong is not calling it evil. I never claimed all Muslims are evil. The teachings in Islam come from an evil source - Satan. You assume I'm Catholic - didn't you read that I study more scriptures than the Bible. I'm not Catholic or Protestant. God proves Himself. All I can do is try to lead you to Him. The choice is yours. There can only be one true religion that has His Holy Priesthood. Neither the Catholics or Protestants have it because it was taken away with the death of Christ's apostles. This was the Apostasy. Want proof it happened. Learn some history about the dark ages and the Catholic church - that's proof enough. If you want scriptural proof try reading Ezekiel, Isaiah, Amos, and Daniel again and again Didn't Christ say he would not come again until there first was a falling away? Please read because you are missing so many signs and clues.

agentaika (2008-04-07)

Thank you for sharing this with us!

rockstar11998 (2008-04-08)

bodthedog - The proof you ask for is already out there. You just aren't looking in the right places for it. Or you just aren't hanging around the right people. I see my words proven all the time. Anyway, I know that soon their will be no denying what God's word is because he will prove Himself with tempests, earthquakes, destruction, famine, disease, pestilence, and many other signs. The buildup of Zion - literally and spiritually and of course the gathering of the Jews and the rebuilding of their temple. The Beast will be ruling the world for a time. You have no way to refute any of this and will die in the destruction or choose the right path - fence sitters won't be a part of Zion.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-08)

bodthedog - You are making more good points. yes GLOBAL WARMING is the main cause of the INCREASE of all of the destruction and commotion in the earth. So God prophesied a natural turn of events and natural disasters because he Knew we'd be living in a technological age that would emit enormous amounts of carbon into the atmosphere and therefore upset the balance He established in the creation of the earth. If this is over your head just let me know. About you statement 'ERRIBLE VISITATION WILL BE A WELCOME RELEASE FOR THEM' - I couldn't agree with you more. Actually the requirements for even these people to be happy is that they are meek and humble just as Christ said in his Sermon on the Mount. About me showing you or telling you about all of the signs and miracles I've seen in this day you can't get a testimony through me. i already know you never intended to learn anything from me. You just want to be an idiot and dog on every organized religion because you have some issues. If you are truly a seeker of truth and are open-minded I have no doubt you'll be led to the same religion I am a part of. No paid clergy, prophet leading the church, additional scriptures than the Bible, modern revelation, a restored church, belief in and use of temples, apostles, gifts of the spirit, the priesthood - authority to act in the name of God, clear and perfect doctrine, tithing, baptism, missionary work, Gift of the Holy Ghost ,and so much more.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-09)

bodthedog - I am impressed you finally got it. (I had to keep leaving more and more clues for ya.) Wow you really have heard a lot of garbage ideas about my faith. As much as I'd like to see you change your ways it appears you are completely lost until you humble yourself or God humbles you. You must now know nothing you say will shake my beliefs. Good luck hating on everyone. Satan lovers you for it.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-11)

bodthedog - aka Korihor - since it appears you are atheist what have you to gain from taking me away from my faith? Do you believe you will get more friends or something stupid like that? You need to realize that wickedness never was happiness. Even if I were wrong about my faith (which I'm not) it still would be better than living out a worthless life like you are promoting. I'm sure all you want to do is blame all the problems of the world - including your own - on religion. Good luck to you but yours and Satan's plan will fail.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-13)

bodthedog aka Korihor - I am very anxious to hear your reply at this topic -
Here is your statement - 'ONE AWKWARD QUESTION AND YOUR OUT'. Where do you come up with stuff. I'm sure you've read tons of Anti-Mormon literature. No surprises there. I ask tons of so called awkward questions and I've never been warned or anything. I lead some of these discussions as a leader in the church. You are making all sorts of ridiculous claims simply from stories you've heard from anti-literature. Joseph Smith said that those who are excommunicated from the church usually do all that they can to fight against it after they are out. This is because they are held captive by Satan who fills their souls with hate and anger. It is all they can do to appease their justification for their rebellion. We accept those who repent fully to come back into the Church. Haven't you heard the story of Sidney Rigdon. He fell away for a time but later came back because he realized his mistakes. People fall away from my church because of sin and unwillingness to follow a prophet of God. Not because the teachings are false. You really need to grow up spiritually.
Now you claim that your God may be the same God as mine but the way you speak says volumes against that likelihood. You say all organized religions are bad - my God organized a religion so your just trying to be misleading to others. Right Korihor. I never said you were deaf and dumb I was just quoting a passage that is a warning to your type of people that God's judgments will come upon you if you keep speaking in an Antichrist way. Whether in this life or not it makes no difference to me.
You say - 'YES ALL THE WORLDS PROBLEMS DO BOIL DOWN TO RELIGION'. Keep leaving out satan do ya. To deny his existence you'll just keep running into the same wall of ignorance and blaming religions. I like the scripture contention is of the Devil. Yes indeed people don't like being told they are wrong. Read the Book of Mormon and that is clear and evident. The problem is when they take measures like going to war over it. My church has never done that - they have indeed attempted to defend themselves against attacks from other faiths and armies tho.
You assume way too much about my faith. To say we are a cult is laughable - now I know you have been reading anti-literature. I do not say all members of my church have acted perfectly but if they aren't going by the doctrines and teachings of the church we excommunicate them not let it go on like other faiths. Yes indeed I am from the origin form of Mormonism if you like - The official name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". We have had many splits from our church that give us bad press but we are the ones with all of the temples, who use the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, the Official Declarations of the Church, print the Ensign, New Era, Church News, and the Friend, who have two websites lds.org and fairlds.org, who have a living prophet with 12 apostles and quorums of Seventies, and have thousands of missionaries around the world. I can go on and on - We are the ones who will build up the City of Zion, who will help the Jews rebuild their temple, who have the Holy Priesthood of God, who allow for Revelation to be accepted today. Go on keep telling me what you don't know about my faith and the lies and I'll keep showing you more and more 'proof' of its validity. You'll keep presenting lame arguments with the help of Satan but you will never get anywhere with me. Keep promoting your Antichrist views Korihor. You'll be held accountable for those you purposely lead away from the truth. The millennium is gonna be long for you if you don't repent before it is too late.

kneebow (2008-04-15)

At least Christians aren?t being killed in Iraq anymore and thus more people can go to heaven over there. That means that they have many of the same freedoms that we have here. Thank God for that! God is not an evil God; there is no sin in him. He sent his Son to die for our sins not for the believer to kill himself off in an act of Jihad. The Bible is more prevalent in the world ? everybody in the modern world has heard of Jesus Christ, I assume. If you want proof of God?s existence, read the Bible and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Take a leap of faith and you will be blessed, for it says that in the last times that all who confess the name of the Lord will be saved. As a believer you are justified by faith, so all your sins are cancelled out; then you become sanctified, then you become glorified in Heaven.
I know from personal experience that God is true. I once wrote against him and was judicated for it; like the conversion of Paul, I was miraculously saved by Jesus to become what I am today. I know that Christianity is not a phony religion. It is the only true religion. There are many facts to support it. Over sixty authors, who wrote at different times, where inspired to write the Book; there is way too much continuity for a book of that size and scope; the parallels between Elijah and John The Baptist, for instance, the over 200 prophesies that came true by the coming of Christ, our Lord. How could all of this came true if the writers where just guessing or off their rockers? For we know that Jesus was a real figure, as historical documents prove by the trial he had under Pontius Pilate. Please believe Jesus, ?I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.? Pray to Jesus now and accept Him. He will continue a good work in you until you meet him. Trust in God.

kneebow (2008-04-15)

At least Christians aren?t being killed in Iraq anymore and thus more people can go to heaven over there. That means that they have many of the same freedoms that we have here. Thank God for that! God is not an evil God; there is no sin in him. He sent his Son to die for our sins not for the believer to kill himself off in an act of Jihad. The Bible is more prevalent in the world ? everybody in the modern world has heard of Jesus Christ, I assume. If you want proof of God?s existence, read the Bible and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Take a leap of faith and you will be blessed, for it says that in the last times that all who confess the name of the Lord will be saved. As a believer you are justified by faith, so all your sins are cancelled out; then you become sanctified, then you become glorified in Heaven.
I know from personal experience that God is true. I once wrote against him and was judicated for it; like the conversion of Paul, I was miraculously saved by Jesus to become what I am today. I know that Christianity is not a phony religion. It is the only true religion. There are many facts to support it.
Over sixty authors, who wrote at different times, where inspired to write the Book; there is way too much continuity for a book of that size and scope; the parallels between Elijah and John The Baptist, for instance, the over 200 prophesies that came true by the coming of Christ, our Lord. How could all of this came true if the writers where just guessing or off their rockers? For we know that Jesus was a real figure, as historical documents prove by the trial he had under Pontius Pilate.
Please believe Jesus, ?I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.? Pray to Jesus now and accept Him. He will continue a good work in you until you meet him. Trust in God.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-15)

bodthedog aka Korihor - Here is another one of your crazy quotes - 'YOU KNOW THAT PLACE FILLED WITH SOULESS BLACK PEOPLE'. Are you trying to misquote someone from my church here? He may have said they were cursed but never soulless. Soulless means you have no body or spirit - the spirit and the body are the soul of man. You are so full of garbage information it's pitiful. Have a fun vacation tho.
LOL keep calling us a cult huh. You apparently don't know any true Mormons or you wouldn't say such things. Your little personal religion is more of a cult than mine is. Ok so if we are such a money making cult as you say, why do we spend so many millions on helping others instead of paying our leaders the cash. All of our top leaders are successful men of the world who have no need of financial support from the church. I was working in a position that required many hours of my time each week and I never got paid one dime nor did anyone I served with. So all you have is a bunch of false information and lies. Your lies will get you nowhere. I've heard more trash about our history than you might think. Keep trying to use the world's logic to answer the questions about God and you'll get to the same dead end. I don't know why you keep avoiding accepting my answers but instead just ask newer or restate older questions in a different way. You aren't frustrating me you're just wasting my time. I'm not gonna try explaining to you God's ways but I will indeed share them with others. I will clarify your lies and present the true beliefs of the church. Thanks for giving me that opportunity - Korihor. All of your final lies/statements amuse me. I have no idea where you got the idea about the members of the church being spied on. Here is one thing that we do do though. It is called home teaching and visiting teaching. Priesthood members are assigned families and/or individuals to visit on a monthly basis or more to check up on them (heath, financial issues, family problems, overall wellbeing) and teach them a spiritual message. They see if they can be of assistance in any way. Many of the widows and elderly people really need this kind of support. The women are called visiting teachers who specifically visit the women in their ward/branch to make sure all is well too and provide a spiritual message. This is called watchcare. If there are serious issues with these members the Bishop or Branch president is notified to help organize an effort to help them or tend to their spiritual needs. These leaders are acting like shepherds.
Fragile!? - um 13 million members spread throughout over 100 countries including Kenya doesn't sound too fragile to me. - Yet another prophecy of Joseph Smith fulfilled. I don't know why you keep denying the truths so plainly seen but good luck to you in your pitiful and worthless fight - Korihor.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-16)

bodthedog - aka Korihor - You still ignore everything I tell you just like Korihor does. Show me a sign!! LOL Here is one of your lame comments - 'AND NOT VERY DEVOUT GROUP AT THAT WITH LESS THAN 43% ATTENDING CHURCH ON A REGULAR BASIS, NO WONDER YOU HAVE TO PREACH SO LOUD AND LONG WHEN YOU GET THE CHANCE'. Are you one of your statistical bookkeepers now. I know what our attendance ratings are. I know what our worldly percentage is. That makes no difference to me. Jesus said 'straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leadeth to everlasting light. Do I expect the church of God to be have the highest religious percentage of the world's population? No, because I read and understand the scriptures. The church of of God is supposed to receive the most persecution of any other church and you are proving that point quite well. I know plenty about the Free Masons - actually a lot of their rituals go right along with our Temple Endowment ceremonies. They have the signs and tokens but they do not know what they are truly about. I've been endowed and if you know anything about that you'd know I have committed myself to the law of consecration and seeking to help others as best I can to live the Gospel and find the truth. Yes the Free Mason have corrupted or twisted the Temple ceremony into something more worldly but the good parts of it were what the forefathers and Joseph Smith were a part of. Thanks for bringing that up.
About that LDS gentlemen who said the twin towers were an inside job. A man of his standing in the church shouldn't be giving his personal feelings about a matter because that reflects on the churches views. He knew that ahead of time but still went forward. People know they will be punished for their actions. If my bishop was to say everyone should vote for such and such candidate because of such and such he would be using his position for power and support which is not allowed. Sorry if you don't like our rules but leaders of the church are told ahead of time what is not ok to do and say. We have handbooks that make of this clear. 'Destroyed His Life'?? Is he out on the streets begging for food or something. If he blames the church for his problems now then he is no better than you blaming the rest of the world and religions for your own. If he wants to fall away from the church over the matter that will show how he wasn't firmly rooted enough in the Gospel. Just as Jesus said 'you have to nurture the good word of God and prune it and dig it about until you can see the fruit of the tree'. Time will tell where his heart really was.
All you do is sing the praises of those that make their church look bad. LOL so amusing. That's just what Korihor did. Anyway thanks for allowing me to bring some clarification to these issues.
BTW - I have seen some conspiracy films about the towers and I am intrigued but not convinced. I am sure the terrorists were involved because of the many witnesses and evidences that have come up about the issue. I am appalled that the government let the Saudis get out while all other flights were grounded. We really have a great dependence on them for their oil. That's why I am yearning for the day that we put more and more effort and use in to renewable energy sources. Algae, heat-radiation, solar cells, and of course fuel cells. I watch a lot of history channel so I am amazed at the variety of ways we can get off our dependence of oil. It's gonna be tricky because we have the automotive industry to fight and our infrastructure is so firmly rooted in the oil business. We will make some great strides soon tho.

kneebow (2008-04-17)

I ask the Mormon. Why did Smith add to the Bible when at the end of Revealtion it says not to add to the Bible. People can do as lot of change without the Hoily Spirit. The Spirit cannot be with you becaouse the prophesies in the Old Testament pointed to Jesus and Jesus in the New Testement fulfilled those prophesies. In the same Testement their is no mention of a further propehsie of a man who would become Smith.
To bodthedog: I was never excemuintaed from a church. Look up the prodigal son in Luke 15 for more guidence. We belong to a forgiving God, who dies for all our sins. I continually confess my sins as I am told to by the Holy Spirit of God. The point was that you could be redeemed in spite of your conflicts with God. I like the way you are with your family, but I disagree what you are fighting for. I didn't spell check this.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-17)

kneebow - do you really not understand why we have the Book of Mormon.? Did you know the same statement you refer to in Revelations that says you shouldn't add to the book is in the book of Deuteronomy? John was only refering to that specific book of scripture since there wasn't such thing as a Bible when he wrote it. The Bible wasn't complied until much later than John the Revelator wrote that passage. In fact, the Bible wasn't even a word or around at all during the Book of Revelations. A bunch of scholars decided what to put together to become what is now known as the Bible. The Bible even refers to Books that aren't within its pages so how can it be all of the Gospel or all of God's word. That's why we say the Bible is incomplete and not correctly translated. If it had been complied by an apostle it would have more credibility. It is mostly correct so that's why we use it in our church. It's how Joseph Smith was led to pray about which church to join. He received an answer to join none of them. Because (God speaking here) - they draw near unto me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. If you want to know more answers to your queries you can go to fairlds.org or lds.org and do some research. Those are two of the official websites of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. People only know us by the title Mormon because we also use the Book of Mormon with the Bible.
All the best.

kneebow (2008-04-17)

rockstar11998: I should have not said that the Holy Sprit is not with you. That is between you and God; I can't possibly speak of your salvation, as I can't for my closest friends in the Church. Where does it say in the book of Deuteronomy that you cannot add to the book. And you did not answer my question: Why was Smith a nessicary propeht when all the Spirture had been fullfilled by the Comming of our Lord? Also, all Scriptuire is God breathed, as it is written in 2 Timothy 3:16; their is certainly a reason why the Bible is a self supported document written by God. If it isn't then it is man centered and worthless. I can get into more specifics later.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-17)

kneebow - Thanks for responding. The verse I speak of comes from Deuteronomy chapter 4 verse 2. If that verse were taken literally as the one in Revelations than the New Testament and all other Revelations and laws after that time wouldn't be allowed. I really wish for you to read/watch/listen to this talk given by an apostle of my church just a couple weeks ago about this very topic. The title of his talk is "My Words...Never Cease". Here is the link
If you look around the website you'll see it has many languages that you can read it in. If you prefer to see the video (My suggestion) there is a link for that to the right side of this page - This page has all of the talks given over those two days of our 178th General Conference that is broadcast throughout the world. Please read/listen/watch it and tell me what you think. I totally understand where you are coming from with your beliefs about the Bible but I wish you to keep your mind open about the need for revelation and prophets today as you read that talk. Beyond all of what he says there is prophecy in Isaiah chapter 29 that points to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. You would have to know some of our church's history in order to understand what is being referred to tho.
Have a great day.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-17)

kneebow - I want to add one more chapter to my suggested readings list. Chapter 37 of Ezekiel. It talks about the last days when the Jews will be gathered again and about another book (stick) that will be written on. The stick of Judah represents the Bible and the stick of Joseph represents the Book of Mormon. Each one pertains to the lineage of the people that put each book together. Verse 17 - Together they can become one in God's hand - a full set of scriptures about God and His Gospel. To comprehend the meaning of these passages you really need to understand the Old Testament and how the Tribes of Israel were separated.

kneebow (2008-04-18)

The Book of Ezekiel is a great Book, along with the rest of the Bible. But the way you interpret it may not be correct to me. We may have a diffrence in our belief systems. I have to be honest: I do not want to stray from the Bible, because their seems no point to me to serve anybody except Christ alone; who is the mediator for the Father and the Holy Spirit, which is God too, of course. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Freedom, Paul states in 2nd Corinithians 3:17. I do not feel safe beliving in something added to what I pertcive as Holy Scripture. I don't mean to offend you, but like I said we may have differing belief systems. What specifically made you want to belive in your faith? I wish to understand this more from your point of view. I didn't sepll check this - again.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-18)

kneebow - i was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I always felt right about the teachings and wanted to serve a mission for God when I was 19 as most young men do in my church. While I was at the missionary training center we were practicing how to teach messages from the Book of Mormon and as my small group were discussing a small passage about Jesus Christ we all had an overwhelming feeling of love and peace. It was most certainly the deepest spiritual experience I've ever had. I since had many others on my mission teaching others about the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon. This is something very personal I've just shared with you but it sounds like you can respect it. The Book of Mormon has a promise at the last chapter about how someone trying to decide whether it is scripture can find out whether it is or not. You can look it up on the internet if you like. Moroni chapter 10. I can't prove that it's true to you because everyone has to have their own personal experience about it. I wish you to remain open minded and plead with God about its truthfulness after reading some of it. I'd specifically suggest you read 3 Nephi chapter 11 so see what it says about Jesus Christ. If you haven't read the talk from the apostle yet please do so. We are not trying to take anyone away from the Bible. We study it along with the Bible. We even combine them into one book with footnotes in each that lead you to similar passages to either book. Best Wishes to you.

kneebow (2008-04-19)

I've had simmilar experinces; what I think you refer to is a Bron Again experience. Itsn't that jsut the greatest feeling in the world? To know that you are chosen by God to live in erternity with Him. Peace and joy are defibnate fruits of the Spirit, arent' they, as outlined by Paul In Galatians 5. I love Jesus deeply, as I always praise Him and his Holy name. Without love their is nothing, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Please keep on your path of faith,as it seems to do a great deal for you.

kneebow (2008-04-20)

If I may be so bold: Muhammad probably went to hell. He was a demon posessed person (being susseptible to demonic influence, he grew up in a pagan - ie polytheistic - household and repeatedly had convusions). He knew what he was writing was wrong.
Just look at the fruit of Islam to know that it stands condemned. God is a God of peace, not war (Philippians 4:9). He is a God whose love endures forever. He sent His Son to die for our sins, not to kill ourselves off for atonement of our own sin. Islam has no savior and this is the way that Satan, who Muhammad was a follower of, wants it. When the real antichrist comes Islam will probably belive that he is their savior, along with the Jews who ascribe to Judism; that will bring world peace in a region strife with conflict, as the bible says he will in the Book of Daniel. You may scoff at me, but in 2nd Peter it describeds that many will. Just keep the faith as a Christian and know that it is the only true faith.

kneebow (2008-04-20)

Why is bodthedog so snide? And why does he write evrything in caps lock? Why dosen't he leave rockstar alone? What did rockstar ever do to him?

kneebow (2008-04-20)

Is their a quicker way to communicate with all of you?

kneebow (2008-04-22)

Once Bill O'Riely said that Stepehn Colbert is snide and when he used that word it seemed fitting of you. You have a funny demenor and I didn't mean to call you anything that wasn't fitting. But in the future I suppose I should use a dictionary; ho hum.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-22)

kneebow - I love your comments about Muhammad and the Antichrist. I have very similar feelings. It's great to know there are others out there that actually know the scriptures. I have been at mininova trying to say the same types of things about Islam and Muhammad and all the Muslims keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Most of them are so clueless about their own history and how bad Muhammad was as a person.
bodthedog won't leave anyone alone kneebow because he is a type of Antichrist himself. Just look up Korihor in the Book of Mormon and there is a guy there that fits his description and comments perfectly.
bodthedog - I'm not trying to be a polition. You don't listen to what I have to say so I'm just clarifying all of your lame comments instead of wasting my time on your lameness. What do you mean I never commented on the text changes in the Book of Mormon - did you skip over my comments???? It's there in black and white. (Besides the fact that it's ancient history and the leaders of our church have commented on it plenty with the press - look it up) Uncle Joe?? I don't know where you get your information but I know better than to believe you. You disregard all of my facts so I guess I can disregard your so-called facts/information.
I don't fear the future energy needs except that we need to get off oil because that's what keeps us friends with the Saudis when we should be fighting them too - please pay better attention. I am not going to comment about the plates. I already have the answers but you'll never know until you faithfully ask if it is scripture through prayer. Those are the facts.
The professor is wrong if you are saying there is no way the building could have collapsed on its own. I know all about the fire protection and what not. Structure damage and heat were enough to cause the collapse. Gravity sure is a B*tch huh.
Now about your age. You sure do sound like a grumpy old man. LOL!!!!! Too bad you don't know enough good facts and just focus on the negative.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-22)

bodthedog - do you even know where the Free Masons got their signs and tokens from?? I do. Jerusalem where the chosen people of God performed these same ordinances as we do today - in temples. That's right the Jews had it all but lost it for a time. That's what wickedness and rebellion does to ya. God takes away what light and understanding you once had. I know this first hand since I'm not perfect. Anyway, you should look up information about a group of people mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls that were doing very peculiar things in the eyes of regular Christians but to us they go right along with what we currently do and have done since the time of Joseph Smith. The Qumran Community is the name of the people. Here is a link where you read some about the history -
and this one -
For the second site I suggest you definitely read the part entitled "The Qumran Complex". No fairytale here - just facts.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-23)

bodthedog - aka Korihor - Here's your ridiculous quote - KEEP YOUR WITS ABOUT YOU. HE SOUNDS ABIT LIKE SATAN, DOESNT HE, NOT THE LEAST BIT CHRISTIAN IN HIS OUTLOOK TOWARDS HIS FELLOW HUMANS, SMUG ARROGANT, AND SELF RIGHTOUS, LOVES TO SPEAK, HATES TO LISTEN. Look who's talking!!! That's exactly what you do. This one really gets me. You said - BUT ILL PLOD ON REGARDLESS IN SEARCH OF THE TRUTH. Who do you think you're kidding. I already know you're not searching for the the truth. You've already made up your mind already about everything and are full of contention - the spirit of the devil. The signs and tokens are as old as time but the Free Masons got them in Jerusalem - ie the stone mason that worked on building the temple observed them being used. Adam - the first man also knew these signs and tokens. I never said that the Free Masons of today aren't an occult. They are indeed. But when Joseph Smith and the forefathers of our country were involved it was totally different.
I laugh at your comments where you claimed you were looking for evidence of God at the Holy Sites. You need to show some faith in order to find Him. Any other way will not do. You really need to learn a lot more about Qumran because you have a very limited view of it if you still don't see how the Bible and Christianity holds up because of its discovery and the Dead Sea Scrolls. You make a good point about the dead sea scrolls about them not saying anything about Jesus Christ. Although not all of them have been translated yet. Some are still hid up by the Catholic church. The actual dates were 200 B.C. to about 69 A.D. The site was mainly a place where they were involved in rituals, practicing the law of consecration, and copying scripture. I do not fully know the mind of God but maybe they were commanded not to write anything about Christ so that the Dead Sea Scrolls would be preserved better. If they contained his name some Muslims may have destroyed them. You know how they are when it comes to saying Jesus Christ was divine. I think more than you give me credit for. I have one huge advantage over you as well. The gift of the Holy Ghost. Satan won't help you learn the truth Korihor.

kneebow (2008-04-24)

It is halarious to listen to you guys banter. You should have a radio show.

kneebow (2008-04-24)

No one is truly opened minded if they have Jesus.
bodthedog: Don't you know that if you seek Christ he is faithful and will find you? You must not doubt and believe. The world may think of even Jesus as being unwordly, and therfore subject to all kinds of names - like being narrow minded and ignorant -, but the truth is that those who accuse are being narrow minded and ignorant.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-25)

bodthedog - Here is what you said - YOUR NOT INTERESTED IN LEARNING, OR MAYBE YOUR TO SCARED. I have already learned enough from you. I've learned you lie and contradict yourself and ignore facts and faith. If you think I need to learn more from you Korihor you're sadly mistaken. Yes, indeed I am a teacher. As a teacher I believe in continuing education. I don't know it all. The leaders of my church always amaze me with their insight and faith. I like to learn truth from men of God not those working for the cause of Satan. Take that how you will. I don't care what you do from here out because you've had warning enough. I will still continue to clarify your misunderstandings for the general public but I won't go into a debate about things which you are STILL clueless about.
About this lie 'UNCLE JOE WAS A 33RD DEGREE MANSON AND LODGE MASTER'. Show me the documentation for this. I'd really like to see it. But alas I know it doesn't exist. More lies Korihor keep um coming to show your true nature.
Kneebow - doesn't this guy make you laugh. He thinks I'm the closed minded one. We both know it is he who is. Bodthedog thinks I'm being arrogant. Well when someone speaks with power and authority then that's how the foolish and hardhearted will take it. For example Nephi vs his brothers Laman and Lemuel. They saw many evidences of God's hand but when they were told they were in the wrong they said it was hard to hear. Bodthedog your new titles are Laman-Lemuel-and Korihor. You refuse to believe even when you have plainly seen the evidence in front of you. Go satan go.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-26)

bodthedog - aka Korihor, Laman, Lemuel - Here you go with your lameness - SO YOULL CLARIFY THINGS FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC BUT YOU WONT CLARIFY ANYTHING FOR"CLUELESS"ME, THE ONLY ONE WHOS LISTENING. I bet there are a few dozen people reading this but no one wants to debate a closed minded atheist like yourself. You claim you only speak facts and no lies. WRONG. You have lied over and over again about my church and you have discounted facts. Go Korihor go.
About your Joseph Smith account I don't see any 33rd degree. I'm still waiting for that. You haven't shown me anything more than you already have.
About secret combinations. Are you afraid to use an index or read my church's literature about this topic? I'm sure you could find plenty of references to the topic at lds.org or around the internet. To give you a brief synopsis, secret combinations are literally anything that is done with evil intent in a hidden and secretive way. The Book of Mormon states that they are doing works of darkness. In other words, they wouldn't do it out in the open where others could see them because of fear of retribution. These groups all take oaths and covenants to protect each other in order not to reveal who their leaders are and to maintain their power and secrecy. So many levels of this are going around the world today and throughout history. The idea of secret combinations does not target any specific group of people. These secret combinations are found in cults, governments of all types, Al-Queda, mobs, gangs, drug dealers, etc. This was the downfall of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon when they let the Gadianton Robbers secretly take over the government. The main Gadianton Robbers of our day - in my opinion - are the Muslim Extremists. They are planning to take over the governments all over the world through murder, lies, and deceit. Everyone in the world is going to have to fight against it including the 'good and peaceful' Muslims in order for them to be thwarted.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-26)

bodthedog - aka Korihor, Laman, Lemuel - Yes you have told me your an atheist. You said you never put your trust in faith. No faith = no God. It can't be any more clear than that. If you have no faith as you say - because everything must be proven with facts or you just discount it - then you don't believe in a God. Or you've made up your own God which requires no one to have faith but to search aimlessly forever for the meaning of life. LOL you are so backward and retarded. Deny Deny Deny, Lie Lie Lie. Keep up satan's work Korihor. I'm not gonna repeat myself wasting time over and over again restating your lies and what my remarks were that followed. Go back and read them yourself. They are at various Islamic torrents. Ok so your making more assumptions again yourself about Joseph Smith and the others. Just because you say he was of some degree or another and don't provide actual documentation you haven't proved any point. Also I know Joseph much better than you. If you think for one minute that I'd believe he was into anything 'evil' as you say I wouldn't be a member of my church. Since I've already testified about his life and mission to countless people and have had many spiritual witnesses confirming that he was a prophet then I don't need to believe any of your lies and so called proof. Go ahead say I'm closed minded. Your the one getting false information from anti-religious retards. Keep doing your so called research because all you'll find is a deeper and deeper hole into narrow mindedness. Yes, I refuse to comment on the many various lame statements you've made. I've already made that clear that I will only respond to those that help promote my cause because all you do is discount everything I say anyway. Later Korihor.

CultureofGreed (2008-04-28)

It is easy and cowardly to criticize the culture of others. It more difficult and braver to criticize ones own culture.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-28)

CultureofGreed - take your bs philosophy to the philosophy section. What good will I do the world just pointing out the flaws of myself when I could be helping others and changing the world for good. You forget the quote or don't fit into it - "The only thing that needs to happen for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." I refuse to do nothing.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-29)

bodthedog - aka - Korihor, Laman, Lemuel - Hi there Mr. Misguided spawn of Satan. I'm not gonna argue with you about whether you are and atheist or not. I already know where you stand by the comments you make, regardless of what you think. I got a few words about this comment - SO MANY FROM THE LDS, 80% WHO START OUT AS LDS DONT FINISH THEIR LIFE AS LDS, THATS A HIGH DROP OUT RATE BY ANY STANDARDS, You're percentage is off by a little bit but even Jesus Christ himself gave parables about people that hear the word of God and after words fall away. Ever hear of the parable of the sower. The Book of Mormon contains a few parts with similar sayings to that parable. One is the Vision that Lehi and Nephi saw about the Tree of Life. They saw that after many partook of the fruit they became ashamed because of the world and fell away. So you telling me how people leave the church after joining makes no never mind as far as the church stands, but rather about the ability of those people to withstand the pressures of the world because of the STANDARDS of the church. The Old Testament says that the Lords people will be a peculiar people. Many can't stand being so different from others and can't handle the social pressures and such. There is another parable in the Book of Mormon about the Lord's people being nourished and pruned and watered in various types of soil around the earth and yet it comes down to the people to decide whether they are going to except the word and grow and stay true. Just like the parable of the sower. The difference wasn't the message but rather the ground type that the seed fell on. If the people are receptive enough and can withstand the heat (pressures and temptations of the world) then they will grow and produce fruit (good works). Oh how I could go on and on and on. Thanks for allowing me to shed some light on the subject for everyone. Did you skip over these passages as you've been reading the Book of Mormon? I know, you haven't been reading with intent to learn but to discredit so you'll miss the good and important stuff. Keep looking because God's words will not fail and you look more and more foolish when you try to put Him down and His church.
I suppose I should research some more about what my church's current stand on the Free Masons is but it won't change my opinions of you or my church. You can't shake my testimony no matter how many claims you make, how much anti-Mormon Literature you read, or how many retarded assumptions you make. I have a lifetime of experience in nearly every facet of this church and can assure any potential member God will be with them if they put their faith in Him and not on the world. You cannot serve two masters.
I love how you keep trying to wind me up with your negative statements about my quotes. I stand by what I have said. I know none of it conflicts with my church's doctrine and position. About the secret combinations. I don't know who those Gentlemen are in the video you've watched but I'm not concerned. All of those groups you mentioned fit my description above - FBI, CIA, etc are part of the government right??? So that just confirms what I say. I told you my opinion was the Muslim Extremists are most like the Gadianton robbers in my OPINION didn't I. You are so quick to overlook the more important details of my statements. Go Korihor Go.

rockstar11998 (2008-04-30)

bodthedog - aka Korihor, Laman, Lemuel - Here you go with a contradictory statement - PLEASE DONT GO ON ABOUT PARABLES, THERE JUST SMALL FAIRYTALES INSIDE ONE BIG FAIRYTALE AND IF YOU MUST QUOTE THEM TELL ME WHICH CHAPTER AND VERSE THEY ARE IN SO THAT I CAN CHECK THEM FOR MYSELF. Make up your mind which you want. Do you want to read the 'fairytale' or not. Sorry but I won't do you that favor of giving you the verses. I want you to look for yourself in hopes you might learn something. I know you won't tho because that is not your goal is it. The only goal you have is to discredit and make everyone else as miserable as yourself. I have to comment on this sad little statement - I COME TO THE BOOK WITHOUT A LIFETIME OF BRAINWASHING AND INDOCTRINATION, I CAN SEE IT WITH A CLEAR MIND AND VISION, The same can be said of the majority of our converts. The difference these people are searching for the truth and you are trying to lead everyone away from the truth. Learning comes from an open mind not a negative attitude. I'm sure you were a great student in school always second guessing the teacher or disregarding what they said claiming you knew better LOL. Here you go again claiming you're all knowing - YOU CANNOT BECAUSE YOU ARE TRAPPED IN THE SRIRITLUAL VOID OF YOUR OWN STAGNANT DOGMA, AFRAID TO OPEN YOUR HEART AND MIND TO AN INFINITE UNIVERSE OF SPIRITUALITY AND KNOWLEDGE, YOU HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LEARN, HOW SAD. This is about as bold face of a lying and deceiver as one can get. You sound more and more like KORIHOR every day. Keep up the foolishness and you're the one that will be stagnant in the next life. I finally did some research on the Free Masons. I do make an apology to those I may have led astray. Here is the church's position on Free Masons -
and here
After reading a good part of this I understand that I may have received some misinformation in my earlier years. I bet I had learned about some specific groups of Free Masons that may be taking things too far and in the wrong direction, in their practices. The Free Masons that LDS members including Joseph Smith, are/were a part of weren't intent on anything more than promoting the brotherhood of men and respecting God. I see now why you hate Free Masons so much Korihor. They teach about God!!! Now I don't want to hear any more of your lies pertaining the matter. I know more than enough and am satisfied that they are a good people. Even tho there may be split off groups that have corrupted things. What else is new right.? All sort of people do this because they seek power and don't want to change. Those type of people sound very familiar to someone I've been posting back and forth with - eh bodthedog. One more thing, I admit I had a pretty limited view of Free Masons before now but now it seems your view is more limited than mine on the matter. We don't openly talk about Free Masonry in the church. I'm not sure of the specifics of why that may be but it doesn't need to be a part of church curriculum because it is a fraternal organization not a family centered one like the church is. You try to make a connection between Free Masonry and Secret Combinations but let me restate that those who are involved in secret combinations are doing things with evil intent. None of the LDS leaders fall into that category so shove your lies up your nose. The issue with Polygamy is an interesting one. Here again you try to misinform the readers about how the church handled it. You need to read Official Declaration 1 at the end of the Doctrine and Covenants again if you already have. If you haven't then your anti-Mormon literature continues to make you look foolish and retarded. Till next time Korihor.

kneebow (2008-05-01)

I meant that Christians aren't opened minded because they are on the narrow path, meaning they are not broad minded; on the road that leadsto destruction (Matthew 7). And what does former theories about the world have to do with Christianity. In the beggining God created the heavens and the earth. He didn't say wether the earth was flat or round. What do you have against Jesus anyway? Don't you want to love more?

kneebow (2008-05-01)

Bodthedog--Bow to the Lord for He will cleanse you from all your sin (read Psalm 51). He will love you as a son and treat you as a friend (read John 14). Please love Jesus. Ask Him to come into your heart and save you. Their is an eternity where you can be with Jesus! And how great and blessed is it to be a Christian? Very. An inheritance that will never spoil or fade (read first Peter). God tells me that I am forgiven, so you can be too. Just trust in God. Praise God! Praise God! Praise Jesus the Lord of Heaven and Earth! The king of kings. Lord of Lords. Forever and ever. Amen. By the way, the Lord has told me to be a missionary, so I am very happy today. Praise the Lord!

kneebow (2008-05-01)

Love the Lord! Love the Lord! He will love you for eternity. Their will be no darkness, no pain, no hate, no division, and just love for all. Believe in Jesus!

rockstar11998 (2008-05-01)

kneebow - Amen to all of that. All we can to is love this guy and pray for his heart to be softened because nothing else will change his mind or get through to him as you can see by all of his negative condescending posts.

kneebow (2008-05-03)

What's wrong with saying you love God? Besides, I don't want a soft heart, I want a pure heart. Read me something from the Bible and I'll belive you, rockstar. Negative posts? Condescending? Nobody's perfect. I just want people to know what Truth is and the greatness thereof. Or am I taking you too seriously? Sometimes I don't say the right things, but I'm getting better at saying the right things.

kneebow (2008-05-03)

bodthedog should be called Body Knows. I just threw that out there.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-06)

kneebow - Your posts are a little silly at times. You sound like you are female - no offense. I have a comment about this statement - "I don't want a soft heart, I want a pure heart." In the Book of Mormon it talks about people who are prideful and who won't listen to the truth as being hardhearted and stiffnecked. I was just making reference to that when I said his heart needed to be softened. The Lord wants us to be humble, teachable, and pliable like a child. If we don't exhibit these qualities he cannot reach us or help us. This is the problem with bodthedog. His spirit is the same age as his body in regards to him acting like an old man wholeheartedly not exhibiting any childlike tendencies.
If I may I'd like to quote one passage from the Book of Mormon that gives you an example of what I mean. Mosiah chapter 3 verses 18+19 - "18 For behold he judgeth, and his judgment is just; and the infant perisheth not that dieth in his infancy; but men drink damnation to their own souls except they humble themselves and become as little children, and believe that salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
I hope this helps. Don't get me wrong I can quote the Bible all day too. I love those Books equally.

kneebow (2008-05-06)

I don't belive in the Book of Mormon and wil never belive in it. I think its theology is incorrect and that it dosen't add anything the Bible that we don't know already; and adds things to the Bible that shouldn't be there. You know so much worthless stuff that I donn't even know what you are talking about. Your theology is incorrect, your history is incorrect; I don't even know how a Morman can keep a straight face when they see or hear some of the things they belive in. Aren't black people excluded from the Morman church; isn't the religion based on some weird history concerning native americans; isn't it racist; am I narrow minded, or do you not realize that is what everybody thinks about the Book of Morman? You never enlist other people's facts anyways and only accuse other people of being wrong. You belong to a cult that I will never belive in; come to Christ and belive in Him alone. Their is no mention of a further prophesy that Smith resulted in and if their is something that Smith referances as a prophest spoke of in a Book of the Bible then it is not mentioning him, I'm sure of it. Name for me the prophesies that Smith says he is establishing from Holy Scipture and I will reftue them all, becaouse I know that the Truth is not Mormon truth.
I am a man, not a woman, and I love people becaouse I love Christ. He is my benefactor. He guides me in the Truth and the Holy Spirit testafies against you. The Catholics belive in teh Holy Spirit too, but I know that it is not too satisfied by that religion becouse of its incorrect theology and I know, since the Morman religion is a cult, that it can be increasingly displeased at the expolits of the Mormons as well. I hope that my words can cut you to the heart and make you repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-06)

Kneebow - First off I understand your concerns about "adding to the Bible". I suggest you read/watch/listen to this talk by an Apostle in our most recent General Conference. Here is the link -
It has many other languages you can read it in if you prefer to read it in any other language than English. I've had this discussion many times about the Bible being the only word of God before, during, and after my mission. I am not worried that you can't accept the Book of Mormon for the time being. One thing that is of no surprise to me is the idea that you think our doctrines are so unique and different from the majority of Christianity. This just proves the point that Jesus and Old Testament prophets said there would be a great apostasy and restoration before he comes again. My church fulfills that prophecy of restoration and the many incorrect and false churches prove that there was an apostasy. Yes, indeed the Book of Mormon is a scriptural record of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas covering the time period of 600 B.C to 1400 A.D. Plus it mentions a people who were known as the Jaredites who were one of the families at the time the languages were confounded about 2000 B.C. They also spent some time on the Americas. If you study carefully the events recorded in the Book of Mormon - which was written in 1828 and 1829 off and on - to the archaeological evidence found in central and south America you would wonder how he could get so many details right in such a short amount of time with little or no prior knowledge about the area and with such a limited education. This is just physical evidence for me and doesn't provide a basis for my faith. My faith is based on my testimony of Jesus Christ and God the Father. The more you understand them the clearer the doctrines of my church become. Take for instance the use of Temples. Weren't temples used in the Bible. Why not today? God used prophets in the past. Why not today? Jesus Christ taught one faith, one Lord, one BAPTISM. WHY NOT TODAY??? Some don't even believe baptism is required - huh where did they get that silly notion? I expect the worst opposition that the world can dish out for my church's beliefs. Why you ask? Because Satan works hardest against those who have the truth. He even led one state to put out an extermination order against Mormons. I know that this enmity and persecution will last and last but I am still going to fight for the truth no matter what. Just as the Apostles in the New Testament gave their lives for the truth. Now about the Blacks and my church. If you read Official Declaration 2 of the church you'll see why things were the way they were. We are not racist at all. The restrictions on the priesthood were due to the curse of the blacks for a time. Remember back in the Old Testament the priesthood was restricted to the Levites. Anyway we are the only ones that use all of the passages in the Bible not trying to give these obvious passages that support the ideology of my church new meanings or make up crazy explanations of what they could mean. I am referring to the verse in the new testament that speaks of baptism for the dead. - 1 Corinthians 15:29. Does anyone but my church do this? No! I could go on and on about the priesthood, church organization, requirements for salvation, doctrine about the afterlife, the millennium, Zion, and all sorts of challenging stuff but I'll spare you that for now. The Book of Isaiah speaks of someone that will bring forth another Book (stick) and it correlates completely with events that transpired in Joseph Smith's life. There is also prophecy about him in the Book of Mormon. A testimony of two or three witness establish the words of God. If you claim that the Bible is the end of scripture than what about the Dead Sea Scrolls and what about Amos 3:7. If God wants to direct us today he will and does use prophets as he always has. So many prophecies about the last days and the restoration/restitut

kneebow (2008-05-08)

Rockstar-I belive that a prophet can exist today, but that prophet would prosphesy about established TRuth, as in the Bible; if the prophet where to say anything new then it would have to come true, not like allot of false prophets who thought that Y2K would be the begging of the antichrist's reighn. I still think that your theology is too strange for me to discern with a striaght face. I feel more secure in my faith knowing that Jesus is Lord, and the prophesy that was told of Him in the Old Testement was fulfilled in the New Testament. I don't need anything else for my faith. My conciense does not condemn me, and I do not accept Mormanism as my personal truth.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-08)

kneebow - I'm not trying to force you into believing that my church is correct. I'm just provided evidence and guidelines for you to find out the Truth about what we believe. I am ok with you short changing yourself if you want to. There are three degrees of glory. You'll fit right in at the middle category or terrestrial. Celetial glory has a few more requirements to get into if you wish to take that path. Remember Christ said "wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." The majority or even a good part of the world will not find the Gate to eternal life. Eternal life is the life that God leads. So not too many will achieve that end. You must earnestly keep seeking more knowledge/truth and try to perfect your life to get there. Please don't sell yourself short. That is what Satan wants you to do.
Soon you will have no choice but to choose a side. It will either be the Beast - led by Satan - or with the Mormons in Zion. Mark my words.
Looks like something happened to bodthedog. I hope he was humbled like he needs to be.

kneebow (2008-05-10)

Are you saying that I belong to Satan because I only except the testamonies of the people that witnessed - such as John and Matthew - or where under the tutatlage of a witness - such as Luke who wrote under Paul and Mark who wrote under Peter - of Christ. Christ said that there would be many false prophets - as mentioned in Matthew 25 and 26 - and how can you be sure that Smith is not one of them?

rockstar11998 (2008-05-10)

kneebow - I hope you don't think I feel you are lost to Satan or anything. I wish you would not be closed minded. Satan will only have control over those who have denied the Holy Ghost's witness after this life is over. I'm sure you're on a good path but there is a better one. But on the other hand you are indeed doing some of Satan's work if you unintentionally or intentionally mislead others. He has done the same thing with many men throughout history. Even Cain thought he was going to be favored of God for taking the life of his brother and then trying to offer his brothers sheep as an offering. I totally agree with the fact that there have been and will be many false prophets. The scriptures tell you how you can test whether that prophet is a true one or not. I'm sure you already know about those ways. I have been a missionary and read much about the life and teachings of Joseph Smith. His father and grandfather even knew Joseph was predestined for something great. If you look at his very limited formal education and how remarkable and complex the Book of Mormon is you can't say anything but this was a miracle. Just like Isaiah states. A marvelous work and a wonder. After he was prophet for a while his ability to speak of spiritual things was awe inspiring. I suggest you read Lectures on Faith. He did so many great things it's hard to just say a few here. He had the power of a prophet where he was able to heal many people and provide revelations about what God would have them do. Most of this is contained in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Official Church History Manual. He even made many prophesies that have come to pass. Everyone needs to remember the church had a shaky start because God had to test the people and find out who would be good leaders much like Moses and the children of Israel or like when Jesus was choosing his head apostles. Was Peter perfect even though he was Chosen as the President or chief apostle?
Getting back to the part where I was a missionary. The very first thing we talked about with people on the street or in their homes was about the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. Because everything that followed afterwards depends on those two issues. Either he was a prophet and the Book of Mormon is scripture or he was a liar and it's all just another interesting religion. I know through the Spirit that whenever I taught others of his vision and about the purpose of the Book of Mormon I always felt peace, joy, and love. Sometimes it was overwhelming and very powerful. No matter what anyone claims I can't deny my feelings about him and the Book of Mormon. I always invited others to recognize how they were feeling as I talked about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Many people don't know how to recognize those feelings in regards to new and different information. I get the same sense when I am with my family or helping some stranger out. It's all because God wants everyone to do good and learn truth. That is the role of the Holy Ghost. To confirm and witness what is good and true. Every time I read from the Book of Mormon or hear truth in my church it's always the same. You can also know for yourself whether Joseph Smith is a prophet by reading some of his testimony and/or the Book of Mormon and asking God with a sincere heart willing to do whatever he requires of you to follow the truth. It's a hard road but more than worth it. My favorite quote or saying of Joseph Smith is that any religion that doesn't require great sacrifice of its people does not have the power to save them. Jesus Christ sacrificed everything. Are we above him?
Please ponder these words and take some time to seriously research personally the Book of Mormon. It is online too if you wish to read it that way. I still implore you to read conference talks or watch messages given by the leadership of my church at lds.org.

kneebow (2008-05-11)

Jesus says in Matthew 24: 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to decive even the elect - if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time."
And concerning those who are qualified to prophesy and witness (at least among the apostles): "You are the witnesses of these things."
Therefore, the fact that Smith was able to perform miracles was not nessicarily something that could of been to his credit. And I don't belive he had the right to add to the Bible because Jesus said that His apostles would be his witnesses, i.e. those qualified to help what became the New Testament. I know in the Book of Revelation it says that there will be two witnesses who prophesy, so prophets will exist during that time. But I still think that your theology could be doctrines of demons, used to divide the elect and cause disputes among them. This is something I think, though I have considered everything you've said so far. But for now I say, peace be with you. Just keep your love in Christ for it is precious.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-11)

kneebow - I am glad you chose to use that scripture in Matthew. The elect are those that know the voice of God when they hear it. They don't get bogged down by the lies that are around the world. They know the truth when they hear it and stay with it.
Not all prophets have to perform miracles. I never said that's why I put my faith in him. I was just giving you ALL of the reasons I know he is a true prophet. I understand you've been brainwashed not to accept and scripture beyond the Bible. That will be the downfall of you and many others for keeping that belief. If you haven't read that talk yet I can't say much more than I've already said. Yes indeed the apostles of Christ were his witnesses. But he called 12 right. When one died they tried to call another and then another when another died. Soon they were killed off faster than they could call new apostles so that's why there was such a great apostasy. Without apostles you cannot have revelation from God. Only apostles hold the keys of the authority to receive revelation for the whole church. The priesthood must be passed on from one who holds the authority directly to another. I could reference all of the scriptures that testify of this but I'm sure you are somewhat familiar with them. If not just look up apostasy at lds.org or fairlds.org and you'll find all of the references there. Please do your own research and don't believe all of the hate speech from all those preachers apposed to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. God be with you brother.

kneebow (2008-05-12)

Rockstar-Dosen't the Mormon Church belive that Jesus and Satan are brothers? If this is true why didn't Paul mention this, or the other Apostles? Dosen't it contrdict what is in the Bible, such as the begging of the Book of John and other mentions of the olnly begoten Son, Jesus Christ (as in Collosians 1, saying he is the firstborn above all creation)? Isn't it stranger than the Catholics who belive incorrectly that Mary interceeds for sinners, when Christ is mentioned as the only person who gives the forgiveness of sins. All I'm saying is, isn't your theology incorrect? I don't think you answered this question before, or I might have missied it due to your dense writing (no offense).

kneebow (2008-05-12)

This is a reaction to some stuff I just read. Reason vrs Religious Dogma. Now dogma is something based on a unfounded principle (look it up in the dictionary.) Just look to creation and you see that their is a Creator; just as if there is a painting their is a painter. That is only being logical. It takes more faith to belive that thing came from nothing than the heavens and earth came from a Creator. It is more logical to belive in creationism than evolution. Now what you say is REligious Dogma is your mind forged manacles: what you consider the reason of man. THat is Dogma: an unfounded principle. Have faith in the Creator and praise his Holy name. He made you. Love Him.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-13)

kneebow - Thanks for asking some good questions. Yes indeed Satan, Jesus, Adam, all of the prophets and you I and everyone that has a spirit is a child of God. The difference between Satan and Jesus is the path they chose. Jesus wanted to follow God's plan and give God the glory for the plan's fulfillment and Satan wanted to fulfill the plan with no one lost but no free will and take all of the glory for himself. For this, he and a third of the hosts of heaven (stars as the Bible tells it) were cast out of heaven (the people cast out voted for Satan's plan). Their punishment is to not ever get a body or progress to become like God. Jesus Christ fulfilled the atonement and was resurrected never to lose his perfected glorified body again. Just like our Heavenly Father. Now about your question of why all of this isn't in the Bible. The only answer I have is wicked men left it out because they couldn't comprehend it or it was taken out during the Catholic church domination because it didn't mesh well with their theologies. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints we have additional Biblical records called the Pearl of Great Price. It contains the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses. The Book of Abraham came from Egyptian papyri that was found with some mummies and was given to Joseph Smith in 1835 and was later published in the "Times and Seasons" in 1842. The papyri also contained two Facsimiles that are Egyptian Hieroglyphs. These are both included in the Book of Abraham section of the Pearl of Great Price. The Book of Moses was revealed to Joseph Smith while he was making a new translation of the Bible. He was commanded to make a new translation of the Bible but it wasn't quite completed before he died. We do include excerpts of his translation at the end and in the footnotes of our 1978 to present versions of the King James version of the Bible. These all make it clear who is a child of God and what power Satan does and does not have.
I want to clarify the statement firstborn and only begotten. Yes Christ is literally the firstborn spirit son of God. Lucifer or Satan was probably second or near the top ten. Christ is the only begotten meaning he is the only one God literally helped father to a mortal body. He and Mary begat Christ. It was a virgin birth. She had never been with a man yet God was the Father. You are perfectly correct stating that Christ is the only one that can forgive sins. Because he was the only perfect mortal, therefore he could be the perfect sacrifice - which is what the Old Testament law of Moses pointed to in every regard. Satan still retained some of his power but he is still bound to obey God and is also subject to Christ and those that hold the Melchizedek Priesthood. That is how the apostles were able to cast out devils or evil spirits. We claim and hold that same power today in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Right on - Love your Heavenly Father and Creator.

kneebow (2008-05-13)

rockstar-if you question the validity of what is called the Truth then you cannot be truly born again. Jesus always said "I tell you the truth," or "Truly, truly I say to you." Paul always said that he was not lying and was guided by the Holy Spirit. You cannot question the Bible to have a true faith. "Abraham belived and it was credited to him as righteousness." Therefore, you are not even justified by faith and your worship of God means nothing. The Bible is the Holy Word of God, not just something that Constantanople threw togther. You must belive in it, and Jesus alone, to be truly saved. I only wish to abmonish you. I was trying to prove that the Mormon Church has heresies, and you proved it to me by attacking something sacred.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-13)

kneebow - I am not attacking anything. The Bible is sacred writings to me also. But you can't discount all of the other sacred writings just because some people misinterpret a few passages within it. I love God and Jesus Christ more than you do because I have a greater understanding of who they are and what they expect of me. The more one understands God the more they become like Him and want to do His will. Jesus Christ was a perfect example of this. At age 12 he already knew who he was and was teaching the wise men of his day. I can to some degree do the same. I bet I could make your preachers look like fools because they haven't got the full truth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints makes no apologies for it's doctrines no matter who it offends. We have no heresies in our belief system. Everyone else just can't comprehend our doctrines because they are too hardhearted or unready to receive it.
I understand that you are upset by my teachings but that is because the whole foundation of what you believe in is being shaken. Trust your heart not merely the interpretation you've heard about the Bible. Haven't you ever looked at some contradictory statements in there and thought hmm how can these both be true. Please keep pondering and searching and I know you'll be led back to the doctrines I am sharing. Good day sir.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-13)

InTheCrack - The following countries deserved to be bombed by the US for murdering and killing innocent people within their own country - Laos, Cambodia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Korea, China, Guatemala, Cuba, Indonesia, Congo, Peru, El Salvador, Libya, Nicaragua, and Yugoslavia. You asked what is terrorism? It is leading your people by fear rather than basing the government on freedom and democracy. LOL retard.

delta9edin (2008-05-14)

a fundamentalist is a fundamentalist!! and it dont matter which 'god' your rooting for, you fuckers make me sick, nae wonder this worlds fucked, not one of your religions is tolerant , you cunts should live by the axim 'live and let live'.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-15)

delta9edin - I don't quite understand how you mean my religion isn't tolerant. I can tell you that we make allowances for everyone to join who wishes to fulfill the requirements but other than that I don't know what you're on about. If you are defining tolerance some other way please tell me. If you are talking about being politically correct then I will just assume you are an idiot. If you want me to be tolerant of sinners and religions/countries that are openly opposed to my beliefs in a hateful way then I cannot be tolerant of that. I will fight against it always.
If you are not talking to me at all then you still misunderstand the word fundamental and fundamentalism.

kneebow (2008-05-15)

I already said this, but God is a God of peace not war. We are all guilty of being sinners, but their is only One who can redeem us. If a goverment or person is apposed to this Truth then they don't say "live and let live." They are inhibiting the rights of my brothers to peacefully worship the living God. Stop reading Noam Chomsky, by the way. Your anarchist rehtoric is absurd.

kneebow (2008-05-15)

Their was a time when I didn't capitlize the living God. I was against God, then. But mark my words, you will feel His wrath if you do not repent. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he calls us all to repent, belive and be baptised. Read the Bible. Confess the name of the Lord, for surely you will be saved. By the way, God loves freedom.

kneebow (2008-05-15)

rockstar-how can you possibly know how much I love Jesus? You are my brother, but someitmes you make some statements that are unfounded. No offense. Looks like we have some newcommers.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-16)

kneebow - LOL look at the noobies. JK. I don't want to be mean but I am unsure if you understand sound doctrine by saying things such as this - "In the past God overlooked such ignorance." Please tell me how this can be. God is unchanging. If he had people repent since Adam when did he ever say it was ok not to repent??? Seriously, I know you are trying to make a point but that is not a sound doctrinal statement you made. Don't entertain those people with back sass. They aren't willing to listen. Chances are he's from some Arabic country where the history books and news are full of lies and they say death to America all day long. When they make such ignorant statements nothing is going to change their way of thinking except God's wrath. I'm glad you still call me brother but we still have a long way to go as far as you understanding my point of view. Who says my statements are unfounded. I can find tons of sources to back them up. Have you even visited my church's official websites yet???

kneebow (2008-05-16)

rockstar-I was quoting Acts 17:30. Look it up.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-16)

kneebow - did yo bother to read all of Acts Chapter 17. I particularly like verses 28 and 29 where it states that we are the offspring of God. Now this is a very straightforward statement right. Then how come only my church seems to take it literally where we are able to become just like our Heavenly Father just like our own offspring able to become just like us. It only makes logical sense when you think about it deeply.
Now your point and use of the scripture do match your statement but the context of the matter is a little deeper than you might think. The apostles were making a statement about how the Gospel was to be spread throughout the earth (to the Gentiles) and not just to the Jews. He is making it clear that the time for everyone to be prepared for the judgment is at hand. He was not making allowance for sin in any manner. Man cannot be saved in ignorance. - look it up.

kneebow (2008-05-18)

rockstar-I used the Acts verse because it documents Paul talking to a bunch of pagans about God, which I consider this audience to be simmilar to. I still don't know what's wrong with telling people to repent and turn to God. You are really arrogant and sometimes you seem like a five-year-old. You are really brazen. I still think your theology is incorrect and you do not have a proper view of Holy Scripture. To say that it was put together by men is to say that man made the Bible. If such is a fact, then your faith means nothing. Also, Paul and the other Christians mentioned in the Bible, those who where the witnesses of Christ, never concurred with your dogma. Part of your belieif is a heresy and you could be in danger of the fire of hell for it. Men don't just flippantly add books to the Bible. The witnesses of Christ added to the Bible becouse they where told to by Christ. Smith found plates in the densely populated city of New York, and the testamony of others does not jive with what you hold sacred. He lived a obscure life of poverty and deolation. Don't you fear the Lord? It says that whoever adds to the Bible will be accosted by the plagues mentioned in it. I Would rather not follow somebody than be in such danger. Your theology dosen't make sense, your beliefs are man-centered, your in danger of the fire of hell, yet you seem to think you can judge all these people on this cite and stupid facts that nobody cares about. Please repent, if you may be so humble. God did not choose people by human descision, but by His will. Just becaouse you grew up a certain way does not make you right. I did allot of other things before I became a Chrsitian, and I know that is a reliable faith. Please repent and belive in Jesus alone, who is the only person under heaven who can forgive your sins. Everything else is meaningless.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-18)

kneebow - Don't try to play with my emotions saying I act like a 5 yr old. Now look who's being childish by stooping that low. Now about this statement of yours - "To say that it was put together by men is to say that man made the Bible." The Bible was indeed put together by men, so was the torah, so was the apocrapha, so were the dead sea scrolls, so was the Book of Mormon. But - God's hand was involved in the bringing forth of all of these sacred writings. The only difference between all of these is that God preserved the Book of Mormon for today so that it would be a pure book of scripture. No one can claim that for the others. If you believe that the Bible was put together directly by God then you have to be Catholic because that was the only church that could have had the authority to do so. Other than that you have no leg to stand on (no authority, no power). I know for a fact that the Catholic church did not have the authority to compile the sacred writings of the apostles and prophets into the Bible. They did anyway and perverted the word of God and changed some of the texts and left many out. Why does the Bible mention books that aren't in it if it's complete??? Makes no sense to me to call it all of God's word if it doesn't have those books in it too. Where is the Book of Melchizedek, or Abraham, or the Book of the Just, or the Book of the Wars of the Lord, or the Book of Enoch, or the Book of Jasher, Samuel the Seer and Nathan the Prophet , and the Book of Jehu. This list goes on but the point is clear that man took/left them out not God.
Here is a small passage from a website that talks about what I am sharing. ---
Why are there lost books from the Bible?
However, the Roman Catholic Church did include certain books to the canon of scripture which they called the Apocrypha meaning "hidden." They were written by the Jews between 300 and 100 B.C., and the Catholic Church felt they should be included because they consider them inspired. The Apocrypha was contained in the Greek scrolls probably available during Jesus' lifetime, but were not considered a part of the Scriptures. The Apocrypha was included in the Bible until the 1500s, but Martin Luther objected, and decided not to include it in his German version of the Bible.
Here are some thoughts from another site ----
The problem becomes more timely and intriguing when we look at our New Testament and recall what is known about the Epistles of Paul the Apostle. In fact, the likelihood that some day a lost letter of the great Apostle may be found has contributed greatly to render the discussion of the whole problem more urgent. But are any of the Epistles of St. Paul really lost?
Fourteen of them are contained in our New Testament. Now Paul certainly wrote more. We are not speaking of the apocryphal epistles ascribed to Paul. a third epistle written to the Corinthians after II Corinthians, an epistle to the Alexandrians, the epistolary intercourse between Paul and the Roman philosopher Seneca.[5] But three passages in our Epistles clearly imply the former existence of Pauline letters now no longer extant. "I wrote to you in the letter not to associate with the immoral" (I Cor. 5: 9-11), "see that. . . you yourselves read the letter, from Laodicea" (Col. 4:16), and "to write you the same things indeed not irksome to me, but it is necessary for you" (Phil. 3.1). Yet nothing more is known of a letter which Paul wrote to the Corinthians prior to I Corinthians, or of one "from Laodicea," or of any other letter to the Philippians besides the canonical one.
So you see kneebow the Bible has gone through many changes so why do you believe so firmly that it can't have mistakes or that it is all of God's word? Because of one misunderstood statement in the Book of Revelations? That is ludacris thinking my friend. God is unchanging. He won't stop talking to His people and giving them guidance for their struggles in their day. Why do you put such limits on God? You say you believe there will be two prophets some day as you read in

kneebow (2008-05-19)

God tells me that you are wrong. It is inspired by God, and you still miss my point: Jesus said that His disciples would be his witnesses, ie, the only people who could credibly add to the Bible. All Scripture is God breathed. It says it is. So you must belive that or your faith in the Bible means nothing, because then you'd be beliving a lie. The Catholics did not compile the Bible. I know that for a fact. It was canonized by God. This is what the Holy Spirit tells me, for it talks to me. It testafies against you. You must repent or be in danger in the fire of hell.

kneebow (2008-05-19)

I acknolage your views, but I cannot accept them. I am just trying to reason with you. You call something sacred made by man, and that is a lie from the devil. I won't call you to repent anymore, I already warned you about two or three times already. If we lived in the same community I wouyld have a friend and myslef come over to your place and try to reason with you. But obviously you will not listen, and you have been brainwashed. That is really sad, but that is what you want; and God does give us what we want.

kneebow (2008-05-19)

If you can add whatever you want to the Bible then how is Gnosticism any diffrent from Mormanism? You said you accepted the Apocrypha as Holy Scipture, but they where written all way after the apostles all physically died. Thye clearly did not belong to part of the canon. In 1 John it says to test the spirits and if they belive that Christ came in bodily form then they are right with God. Whatever other view their might be, this was the only correct one. So if you support Gnostic texts, which are heretical, then how could Mormanism be any diffrent (albiet containing heretical beliefs)?

rockstar11998 (2008-05-19)

kneebow - Now now quit resorting to lies. Here is your lie - "God tells me that you are wrong." Sorry mate but lying is only going to take you farther from God not closer to him. Looks like someone needs to do some repenting again. Here is another mistaken thought of yours - "All Scripture is God breathed. It says it is." Listen to what you are saying. You are claiming God has no say in whether he can provide more scripture again because of one misunderstood passage or two. Come on wake up. My faith in the Bible is greater than yours because I have the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, The Doctrine and Covenants, the Dead Sea Scrolls, The Torah, parts of the Apocrypha, and many other prophetic teachings from modern day prophets to prove its worth. They confirm the truth of the Bible rather than limit it like you have. I am not attacking your faith - because you never mentioned you had a particular organization you belong to - but you continually try to lie about mine. Why do you refuse to hear the truth. I know I have shaken to foundations of what you believe in, so all you can do is resort to threats and lies. Please be humble like your name implies. This hate and contention you are building up comes from Satan not God. Please ask God what is right after reading the truth from its source (the Book of Mormon or my church's official websites) not anti-Mormons. I know you have probably been taught ridiculous things about the Book of Mormon and what is contained in it so you are scared to read it. That is very evident by your comments to stray the least bit from the Bible for truth. I just wish you would not fight against what will make you a better Christian and a better son of God.
For you to claim that the Holy Spirit told you such and such doesn't hold any water with me. Were you baptized with proper authority? Did you afterwards get hands placed upon your head by someone with priesthood authority and give you the gift of the Holy Ghost? No you haven't, so how can you make such claims??
Brainwashed isn't such a bad thing you know. I like having my mind cleared of the confusion that is rampant in the world today. Joseph Smith felt the same. How can so many people claim they have the correct and only true way to God and interpret the scriptures so differently??? Nowadays there is a shift that pleases the ears of men even more telling them they don't need a church, priesthood, or ordinances or even preachers because heck someone put together this Bible thing and now anyone can just use that and they'll be fine. To believe this hype and backward thinking is to deny the prophets were ever important and to say God changes the way he deals with His children. I don't buy it and more and more of the elect won't buy into it either. Your modern views of God are just the appealing words of Satan to blind you into diverse paths. All he wants to do is steer you away from God a little bit with false doctrines of men because then he can bind you down to hell.
Why are you saying I can add whatever I want to the Bible. We aren't adding to the Bible even tho it needs some changes and additions. Even the Bible itself acknowledges that there would be other books written besides it. Didn't you read Isaiah again?? Our official stance on the Apocrypha is that we don't accept all of it as holy scripture. It is not considered part of the standards works of our church just like the Torah isn't. We are told to make sure we are reading it with the Spirit to determine which parts are inspired and which are not. So stop your worrying about heresy and such.

kneebow (2008-05-19)

The Holy Ghost, the Counselor, Christ Jesus, all talk to me and tell me the truth. Their is only one truth. You say: "How can so many people claim they have the correct and only true way to God and interpret the scriptures so differently???" Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the truth, the way, and the life, no one comes to the father except through me." Not Mary, not Smith, but Jesus. I have now found out that you are numbered with the trangressors. I have tested your spirit and found it to be false. You belive their are many avenues to God, but their is only one: Jesus Christ. He is as John 14:6 states by Him. I hope I am not being too harsh on you, I am trying to admonish you.

kneebow (2008-05-19)

I was regemerated by the Holy Spirit. It told me to go to Church so that I could come to Christ. It was all God's work, regenration is, and this was true in my case. I seriously messed up with God and I heard the Holy Ghost convict me of sin and tell me the narrow path. It onbly spoke of what it heard from the Bible. It broke me of my pride and caused a great deal of pain, like the pains of childbirth before the birth of a new creation. I know God now, and how blessed all of us belivers are.
Just to mention: I belong to a Bible Church that is non-demoninational, but simmilar in many respects to a baptist church. I was baptised in immersion in the name of the blessed Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I love God so deeply that I have their times where I cry in the Spirit and have these warm gobs of tears streaming from my eyes. As I already said, I know God, and I do not need to add to Holy Scipture to feel secure in my faith. If I am not going to hell if I don't belive in Mormanism and if Mormans could possibly go to hell becasoue they "added" to the Bible, which is something I percive and I think are trying to correct, then what is the point in beliving in Mormanism. Jesus told His disples they where going to Heaven and not to diffrent celstial levels like you seem to imply. If it was good enough for those disiples it is good enough for me.
I like talking to you and I think we could have some great conversatiopns over coffee. You know your stuff, but I think that Jesus alone is the only way to Heaven.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-20)

Kneebow - You still overlook everything I have told you and just focus on how different my church is from yours. Why else is the title of our church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints if we didn't believe Jesus was the only way to God. A prophet like Moses, Abraham, Peter, Joseph Smith testify of the mission and doctrine of Christ. That is their role. We do not put any prophet above Jesus Christ no matter what lies you've been told. Ask any upstanding member of my church and they'll tell you the exact same thing,
I never said there are many avenues to God. Not once. Why do you keep lying??? Satan really has a good hold upon your heart if you continue to lie about what you suppose are my beliefs and that you know it's false. If you continue on this path I will have to give you a warning. Jesus said those who won't receive you (messengers - holders of the priesthood) won't receive me. and those who don't receive me reject God. That is what you are doing by rejecting me and my message. You are turning yourself away from God. You will lose your reward if you continue on this path. I also exhort you to cease the lies or I will have to give you a special warning with a curse. It is called dusting my feet - look it up.
I have no doubt you have been turned to Christ from your wicked ways. But I still ask if this is enough? Do you know anything about the ordinances that are REQUIRED for salvation? It doesn't sound that way to me. By what authority were you baptized? Where did their authority come from.? I can trace my line of authority directly from Jesus Christ? I don't every want to steer you away from God or Jesus Christ. That was never my intention. As I've repeated again and again, I just don't want you to settle for anything less than exaltation. Satan wants you to fall short as he has. If you are happy with the Terrestrial Kingdom I'm happy for you. But when the time comes for judgment I know I'll be the one saying I told you so. The Bible is clear there will be different states of glory given as a reward for his children's diligence in following his will. The telestial glory, the terrestrial glory, and the celestial glory. Just like the stars, moon and sun have different glories or brightness. You are deciding to have only the brightness or glory of the moon. Many like you will go there but compared to the sun it is rather weak in glory. The celestial glory means we can be as glorious as our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Wouldn't you rather have that kingdom instead? When Jesus spoke of many mansions he was referring to sizes too. Think about on earth how some "mansions" are rather small and some are huge in comparison. The same is true in heaven.
Didn't you know members of my church don't drink coffee LOL. I don't mind discussing the scriptures with you but I wish you weren't so closed minded. You still haven't told me whether you have read anything from my church's website or passages from the Book of Mormon for YOURSELF. It carries the same Spirit as the Bible. If you would just give it a chance you would see for yourself. There is so much more to learn of Christ in its pages. I do not lie about this because I am only offering guidance and want nothing in return.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-21)

InTheCrack - The following countries deserved to be bombed by the US for murdering and killing innocent people within their own country - Laos, Cambodia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Korea, China, Guatemala, Cuba, Indonesia, Congo, Peru, El Salvador, Libya, Nicaragua, and Yugoslavia. You asked what is terrorism? It is leading your people by fear rather than basing the government on freedom and democracy. LOL retard.

kneebow (2008-05-24)

WHy dose the Holy Spirit not tell me to go to a church that you belong to? Why is it that the discples of Jesus certainly attained their glory and why should Smith question that by saying their is a greater glory. I hope that I am making myslef clear. I do not veer from the Bible or the Christian life becaouse I have been susptible to the world and am very sceptical of anything in it, including all these half naked women who prace around in pictures upon this cite. Everything the Apostles sad was supported by Jesus, so why dosen't Smith?

kneebow (2008-05-24)

To the CRack guy- their is good and evil in this world and you belong to a country that is one nation under God. We try to do our best to do good and stop evil. All those countries that where bombed threatened our intrest, to spread freedom (which is a product of good) acoss the world. If you belive in Jesus you know that such things must take place.

kneebow (2008-05-24)

rockstar-if not coffee, which I understand becaouse it is a light drug, then maybe you'd prefer another bevergae to your liking. Just kidding.

rockstar11998 (2008-05-24)

Kneebow - Here is what you said - Why dose the Holy Spirit not tell me to go to a church that you belong to? If indeed this is the truth and not a lie then the only reason I can think of is that you are not ready to accept the truth and wouldn't be able to put up with the persecutions and trials that would await you by going to my church. Other than that I see no reason God would tell you to wait or not go.
Joseph Smith never questioned what you said about glory. I don't know what you are referencing to exactly with this question. I'm glad you are weary of the world but there is nothing worldly about my church other than it is a global entity.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Joseph Smith's words aren't supported by Christ. Have you ever read some of the Doctrine and Covenants? You still haven't told me what you have read on your own if anything.
Thanx for the drink offer but just feast upon the words I speak and drink from the well of everlasting life - Christ.

kneebow (2008-05-29)

It is a coincidence that this ends on the seventh page?

rockstar11998 (2008-05-30)

It's not over till it's over. Why does it have to end?

sohailkhanonline (2008-05-30)

there is nothing you can do to Islam
absolutely nothing
the world has tried to modify the holly book Quran for 1400 years
and still they are not successful in changing a word of it
what else i have to say
so wait till your time comes, and dont even think that you wont be punished.

rockstar11998 (2008-06-01)

sohailkhanonline - those are some entertaining comments you make. LOL! It's good that you feel strongly about your religion but don't assume we will be punished for saying bad things about Islam. Satan has no power over me if I don't let him. If you haven't watched this video and woken up to the truth about Islam I suggest you watch more that show how evil Islam truly is. Christianity is the only way back to God.

kneebow (2008-06-02)

I concur with rockstar.

rockstar11998 (2008-06-02)

kneebow - thanks for the backup. I found myself another Korihor at this topic. You should follow what I share with him. He is as bad or worse than bodthdog. I gave him the same warning. The topic link is here -
TTYL

rockstar11998 (2008-07-01)

kneebow - Here is another scripture that supports my beliefs.
Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 11:3

ghsfr33d0m (2008-07-18)

You fuckers are crazy..how can you think this shit? I suggest you read "Why we Hate," great read. Maybe you will begin to understand your distorted views and be able to make strides to correct them. Heres a hint, any time you group people like this you are fucking up. You cant look at all followers of Islam and say they do X, Y and Z. Just like you cant look at all Christians and say they killed millions of people between 1050sih and 1300ish in the crusades *in the name of religion.* While we are on the crusades, we started this "war" by the way. The Catholic church granted immunity from sin to its fighters and sent them to rape, pillage and plunder the Islamic world. They killed every man, woman and child they could get a hold of. Or maybe they would rape the women before the men and children then kill the mother, child and father in that order. Hole cities at a time died this way, in the name of Christianity. What you have to understand is you are just a another color of shit. Your bigoted views make me sick. Atheists ftw.
ghsfr33d0m

rockstar11998 (2008-07-18)

ghsfr33d0m - I agree we shouldn't group all of Muslims in the same category ...YET! We can group them together in one way tho, their use of the Koran. The Koran teaches what the so called 'Extremists' are doing. They are fundamentalists. They are trying to live the same kind of life that Muhammad led. Ever give Prophet of Doom a read?? You should. Islam is an evil religion established by the devil. Just because 95% of Muslims are clueless about their religion like 80% of Christians are clueless about the contents of the Bible it doesn't mean we should let them off the hook. If you truly studied the Koran you'd know that both the peaceful Muslims and the radicals have justification in the Koran. The problem is in the source of information. Satan wrote that book of lies and confusion. It contradicts itself throughout. You might say well the Bible does the same. Well, if you say this you must understand the purpose of Jesus Christ and of course Muslims don't because they are told we don't need him as our Savior. so I won't bother with that discussion.
Yes both Muslims and so called 'Christians' have been killing others for centuries. I don't remember Jesus Christ teaching it's ok to attack others and kill them. I guess the early 'Christian' church weren't reading the Bible very carefully. The crusades were not authorized God. True Christians would have understood that. They had no authority and the doctrines of Christ had been corrupted. That's why the reformers started their thing in the 1700's and 1800's. They got the ball rolling for the Great Apostasy to come to an end. I am from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I know that the early Christian church got corrupted not long after Christ died and his apostles got killed. That is why there was a need for a restoration or restitution of all things as prophesied there would be. That happened in 1820.
The war today wasn't started by Muslims so to burst your bubble. Didn't you read in the Koran that Islam is supposed to dominate the whole world. That's what the early Muslims tried to do remember?!! Today they are gaining power and financial backing to continue that fight. They were greatly defeated back in the 1700's I think and so they stopped trying to conquer for a while. Now Muslims are trying new tactics (like the Koran teaches) to win their so called 'Holy War'. If you knew any real history you would agree with everything I've said so far.
Everything you said the Catholic church did to your people in the crusades is happening today by Muslims in and out of their Islamic countries. So what are you saying? Shouldn't we condemn all of you?? Not all catholics are doing evil just like not all Muslims are doing evil. Neither groups understand their religions because they don't study their own sacred books. Thus we see contention and fighting because that's what ignorance leads to. And of course that's what Satan is trying to do to us. He wants all to be confused, think one group is superior to another, keep people in ignorance, make war with one another, and pretend the past never happened so we won't see our mistakes. The more and more I study history the more clearly I see how false Catholicism is and Islam is. I like videos like this one because it wakes up the world to what Islam is truly about. Atheist annoy me too. They don't know any history and are clueless about spiritual things.

rockstar11998 (2008-07-18)

Opps big typo. I meant to say the war today wasn't started by Christians. It WAS started by the Muslims back around 700 AD. Islam was trying to conquer the whole world. God never teaches you should spread His world through battle. He teaches you spread it through missionary work. God is not a God of force and compulsion. He is a God of choice and love. The God of the Koran is Satan.

kneebow (2008-08-14)

Rockstar - shut the hell up and become a Christian. You keep putting real Christians down and I suspect it is becaouse they are not Mormons like you. I think you don't understand Scripture very well in that Book, you know, the Bible; in 1 John it says that those who hate their brothers are not really born of God. You sladerously report that few Christians understand the Bible. How can you say that? Are you God? Do you know every person? You are a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing and it isn't too hard for one to spot someone like you. Stop beliveing that false prophets are real and that everybody is stupid for not beliving in them. All God needed to say is in tne Bible, so read it, you may learn something, you hypocrite.

Nude-In-Russia (2008-08-25)

The United States has in any case, humor, or?
Every time I read the USA's various statements on the war between Russia and Georgia as highlights, I rigorously on eyebrows, so even today.
The United States is now becoming increasingly clear in its criticism of Russia's military intervention in Georgia. Meanwhile, fighting in the area temporarily ceased. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice now criticizes Russia for the way it acts in connection with the conflict in Georgia. -- Russia has several opportunities to change course and show that the country is trying to live up to the principles applicable in the twenty-first century, "she says according to the news agency Reuters.
Secretary Rice also says that Russia's international reputation is at stake. "
To hear U.S. Secretary of talk about who will live up to the principles that govern the twenty-first century must simply be a joke. For Condoleezza Rice can not reasonably believe in such a speech himself. Probably so she gave it on the radio so that it is not what it seemed to fit in a mungiporna. For the day that Russia has fallen just as deeply into the mire with folkrättsbrott, torture, illegal detention and mass extermination of Muslims is unlikely to happen.
Work is already under way in the United States to bring the George W. Bush before the national-or-martial, and it would not surprise me if we will actually go ashore with the task. The countries themselves feel that they have the right to exempt its military leader of the Hague court or other War Tribunal simply do not have the right to comment on how other nations should behave. So my image is selected with care, George W. Bush is like a treåring on a tricycle.
The Russians have definitely planned to show the military muscle to mark their nation's place and status in the region. Bush chooses to do the same thing in other continents settled a thousand times worse. So should we let our water over some political leaders in 2008 as George W. Bush must be the first to benefit from our combined effort.

Nude-In-Russia (2008-08-25)

I know that Rice is a she, The Witch is similar to a guy

evilboy99 (2008-08-26)

crackheads

carsten.666 (2008-08-30)

To rockstar11998
Do you really need a religion, to behave like a decent human being. It should be your own decision to behave properly, not a fear for the consekvenses in the "afterlife" that guides you.
I am personally not afraid of "god" or "satan". It is religious people that scares me.

Jusext (2008-09-08)

We must pay our respects to all religions of the world, for they have raised man above the animal and made him divine, but there must come a time when man will be BETTER than any religion, when he will see it as beneath him, when He will finally become his own god.

sumwun (2008-09-16)

the crusades started becase the islamists were killing any christians who dared to enter the holy land becase of warlord mohamad the pedofile started his own crusade first after he took madenia he got mad with power and changed his own gods words retrospectovly and condemed his race or followers to blind obedence to serve his needs and his ends if you arent a muslem you will have to convert or pay tax and live as a second class citizen or die if you convert you must live every part of your life as the church tell you to with punish ments like stoneing for being raped or pushed back into you burnig school becase you are not wereng your head dress forced to buy all you food from the church industry after its blessed ( the meat of halal is killed by crule means and if you are muslem your cow when slaughted must have its legs cut to prevent it from moveing and then bled to death they do this to get blood out but it fills the beast with adrenilen and other panic hormones and brused meat) you will find that most food outlets have submited to serving halal meat even though only 6 percent of there customers want it and this has closed some traditional suplires who refused to kill their stock in the halal fashion living in a muslum or islamist world will be like going back to the stone age they dont like science and there is no fairness or joy in a place where your hand is cut off if you steal or your finger is squashed if you look at porn the muslems arent a bad people but the leaders who prevent them from learning what the world has to offer and scareing them into hate and fear and lureing them to death with promises of 7 brides in heaven are the devils incarenate

Wake_Up. (2008-10-24)

This is Islam. What Muslims are doing in Darfur.
Halima Bashir is a survivor. She was tortured and gang-raped for days as a punishment for speaking out about an attack on primary school children in Darfur.
Her crime was to tell people that a group of Janjaweed militia and government soldiers had attacked the primary school for girls, raping pupils as young as eight. She paid a terrible personal price.
"They were aged between 8 and 13," she said. "They were in shock, bleeding, screaming and crying. It was horrific. Because I told people what happened, the authorities arrested me. They said, 'We will show you what rape is'. They beat me severely. At night, three men raped me.
"The following day the same thing, different men. Torture and rape, every day, torture and rape."
In five 5 cases, women described that the rapists abducted them and held them captive for several days and during that period they were raped regularly by several men. One woman reported that her abduction lasted 6 days and she was raped by 10 men.
?I was returning from the market, that day. I was walking with a group of nine women and two men. We met some armed men along the road. They took the nine women and held us under a tree in their camp. They released us after three days. During all this time, I was raped every night and every day by five men.?
Among the nine women, only three came to the clinic, among which two girls were 12 and 13 years old.
The women and girls fall victim to rape as they collect firewood outside the refugee camps. Many have been gang-raped in front of their families as the conquering Janjaweed militia burnt down their homes.
Seven women pooled money to rent a donkey and cart, then ventured out of the refugee camp to gather firewood, hoping to sell it for cash to feed their families. Instead, they say, in a wooded area just a few hours walk away, they were gang-raped, beaten and robbed.
Naked and devastated, they fled back to Kalma.
"All the time it lasted, I kept thinking: They're killing my baby, they're killing my baby," wailed Aisha, who was seven months pregnant at the time.
The worst case was that of a nine-year-old girl who had left the refugee encampment to gather grass for thatch and as fuel. A smiling man approached her and asked her to help him. She agreed, but as they moved further from the camp she told him her mother had told her not to wander so far.
Turning ugly, the man gagged her and tied her on top of the bundles of grass before raping her repeatedly. On release, she staggered back to the camp where Laird treated her for bleeding so severe that the child was unable to walk for many days afterwards.
In another case, an 11-year-old girl was raped by three armed men when she went to collect grass with her 7-year-old sister. The attack left her so badly injured she had to be evacuated by an African Union helicopter to the nearest hospital for treatment.
"I am 16 years old. On day, in March 2004, I was collecting firewood for my family when three armed men on camels came and surrounded me. They held me down, tied my hands and raped me one after the other. When I arrive home, I told my family what happened. They threw me out of home and I had to build my own hut away from them. I was engaged to a man and I was so much looking forward to getting married. After I got raped, he did not want to marry me and broke off the engagement because he said that I was now disgraced and spoilt. It is the worse thing for me...
...When I was eight months pregnant from the rape, the police came to my hut and forced me with their guns to go to the police station. They asked me questions, so I told them that I had been raped. They told me that as I was not married, I will deliver this baby illegally. They beat me with a whip on the chest and back and put me in jail. There were other women in jail, who had the same story. During the day, we had to walk to the well four times a day to get the policemen water, clean and cook for them. At night, I was in a small cell with 23 other women. I had no other food than wh

Wake_Up. (2008-11-11)

No religion or society has been as responsible as Islam for invasions, intolerance, genocide, massacre, civil war, annihilation of other cultures, abuse of women and children, persecution of non-believers, and general inhumanities.
Islam as a religion or belief system should at least decrease these problems, and yet it has failed like none other. Instead Islam has been used to justify and magnify human evil for 1500 years.
At the very least Islam has not proven a reasonable model for civilized success.
Islamic countries are constantly in civil war.
Islamic countries have either no tolerance for non-Islamic beliefs or brutally subjugate non-Muslims.
Islamic countries demonstrate the worst abuse of women.
Freedom of speech doesn't exist.
Wherever Islam goes all non-Islamic culture and belief is destroyed. Art, libraries, architecture, are all destroyed if non-Islamic.
The most extreme slaughter and suppression of critics & dissenters:
Hitler's Nazi Germany,
Stalin's Communist Russia,
Mao's Communist China,
Pol Pot's Communist Khmer Rouge,
Mussolini's Fascist Italy.
Saddam's Islamic Iraq,
Khomeini's Islamic Iran,
Omar's Islamic Taliban,
Abd al-Wahhab & Ibn Saud's Islamic Arabia, and
Tamerlane's Islamic Asia,
These empires fit together like puzzle pieces.
Islam has always been a fertile ground for the rise of ultra extremist militant fascist movements.
Wherever Islam goes in the world violent militant extremists magically appear as well.
These problems find their roots in the books, teachings and examples of Islamic leaders from the very beginning.
And don't try to apologize for these fascist Islamic empires by saying every country has it's problems; it would be like apologizing for Ted Bundy & Jeffrey Dahmer by claiming everybody has their problems.
For an excellent list of factual and historic articles:

Esmad3 (2008-12-13)

ziphone124: AND NOT TO MENTION PEOPLE ALL THE TIME CALL MUHAMMAD A PEDOPHILE WHEN MARY THE MOM OF JESUS WAS IMPREGNATED BY GOD AT 11 TO 12 YEARS OF AGE AND JOSEPH WAS 90 YEARS OLD ACCORDING TO CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA.
That is derived from apocryphal writings, not the bible. And most of the qoutes you refer to is from the old testament (all but one if I'm correct), the new testament is what teaches the proper way of life for a christian (by jesus' example). I'm not religious but you don't have to be to know Jesus was a pacifist and Muhammad was a warlord.

Esmad3 (2008-12-13)

--BigR-- & ziphone124 do you know this is a scandinavian website and in scandinavia only 1 in 5 even believes in any kind of god?

Esmad3 (2008-12-13)

And just a last one... What does it matter that it says " death for this and that" in the bible? No christian country actually executes people for "immoral" acts (e.g. adultery, homosexuality) that is a strictly muslim practice.

Esmad3 (2008-12-13)

Oh, not quite the last since i just spotted a blatant lie:
AND WHAT ABOUT THE AGE OF CONSENT IN 2001 IN HAWAII BEING 11 YEARS AND IN 1890 IN CALIFORNIA BEING 9 YEARS OF AGE FOR A GIRL.
HONOLULU, 6:47 p.m. HST July 10, 2001 -- For the first time since 1957, the Hawaii state legislature voted Tuesday to override a veto by a governor. State lawmakers held a special session Tuesday morning to vote to override Gov. Ben Cayetano's veto of a bill to raise Hawaii's age-of- consent for sex from 14 to 16.
The part about 9 years as the age of consent for girls only in california is ofc not true either.

CarlWilfilUranus (2008-12-19)

There's really no point arguing with rockstar'666' and his fellow cultists. "Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr.
Begone, disciples of Simon Lucifer Magus! "You have neither PART nor LOT in this matter ? Thou art for a gall of bitterness and a fetter of unrighteousness, lawlessness; a cause of corruption to others." (Acts).

lolerghg (2009-01-01)

Big thanks. Very important message. When these religious freaks here mentions crusades (which was triggered by muslims, btw) and colonization of America and compare them to todays attacks on Israel, India, Russia or whoever its laughable, like a) it makes up for the muslims missbehaviour b) they dont realise that happened then and is history whereas Israeli school children are blown up every week or so and c) drawing paralells between out right wars and deliberate acts of terrorism against civilians.
Also, ziphone here seems to belive everything his imam is telling him, jesus christ (pun intended) get a grip on yourself and also there are no evidence that states marys age and there defenitatly are no statements when this alleged god fucked her, as for Muhammed and his sick fantasies there are. ANd lets not forget, your stinking religion holds the old testamente to be true (which is where you got the verses from) so your stinking religino is the worst! not only because it has two books filled of hatred but also because your prophet was pedophile and a terrorist.

lolerghg (2009-01-01)

Also there is a big diffrence between 'christians' killing people and muslims killing people as an act of faith.

lolerghg (2009-01-02)

and even more also, the society in spain that you talked about well that harmony and religious tolerance was instated by the visgothian kingdom which was invaded and subsequently annexed by the muslims who then imposed jizaya on the non belivers..

murar1 (2009-02-13)

The year is 2009 A:D: the a.d. only being a measure of time,. And here we are arguing over who has the right to kill whom on the basis of our murderous ancester. In the name of God that might I add the same god that the three worst genacide murderous, peoples of the world. Discussing hate and revenge and dominance now, could we not forget history be ashamed of history, stop promising, virgins and paradise in the everafter. those that hold this carrot and weild this stick, after all are just, only meer men,.stop worshipping and start living caring and loveing free thinking people have been frightend from any rightious path,

matook (2009-02-17)

To all those who have watched this video--read the kuran and you"ll see it does add up--he was a peadophile and a criminal--its written in their pamphlet--its a shame they"re too coward to admit it--in their retoric they always come up what the west has done --never with an answer---yes he was a peadophile ,yes he was a criminal--(his god would have told him its wrong to rape Aisha age 9 and behead people because they refused to tell him where their goods were hidden) from a non muslim non xtian or jewish

spyinDacab (2009-04-24)

Wake_Up: "The most extreme slaughter and suppression of critics & dissenters:
Hitler's Nazi Germany,
Stalin's Communist Russia,
Mao's Communist China,
Pol Pot's Communist Khmer Rouge,
Mussolini's Fascist Italy.
Saddam's Islamic Iraq,
Khomeini's Islamic Iran,
Omar's Islamic Taliban,
Abd al-Wahhab & Ibn Saud's Islamic Arabia, and
Tamerlane's Islamic Asia"
I wonder how 60,000,000 Indians aren't included in this list. (American propaganda)
Besides that, it true that Saddam Hussein was a murderer but he was a secular leader. he even guarded the Christians in his country, to sustain freedom of religion in his country. (at least for Christians and Muslims)

banxxx (2009-05-31)

Man made the car man made wars man made so called "religions" to control others....why none of you who follow this vile dogma cant answer 2 simple questions/ 1st did this so called "prophet" had sex with 9 years old girl???? if yes hes no "prophet" alla would have told him hey "muhammud" its wrong to do such things..did he murder his own prisonners weird questions this one how can you be a "prophet"???

ody78 (2014-07-04)

sound on this one sucks !!!! ...very irritating !!!

TaiTheGuy (2014-09-11)

If only there were some more opinionated comments.
[is it Muslims who aren't supposed to be sarcastic?]